Week Seven Post Game: Packers Ride Adams to W Over Texans

[vegas492]

2 hours ago, Brit Pack said:

Did Josh Jackson have a good game as well?

Thought he was up and down.  Made a few nice tackles, one or two for a loss.  For him, though, I'd say he was solid and had a game that he can build upon.

[beekay414]

Barnes and Martin are exhibits A and B as to why you don't invest high draft capital on inside backers. Both look like they are going to be a good tandem together and they cost us a 5th and nothing but money. But, yeah, let's go get Patrick Queen or Kenneth Murray.

[vegas492]

Saw MVS come up in the thread.

This game.  MVS.  4 targets, 0 catches.

Adams, 16 targets, 13 catches.  Williams.  5 targets, 4 catches.  Tonyan, 2 for 2.  Lewis, 1 for 3.  Taylor, 2 for 2.  Stern, 1 for 1.  Shepherd 1 for 0.  MVS.  4 for 0.

Wouldn't really concern me, but....for the season...

Player/targets/catches yards.

Jones.  28/18/161.

Williams.  19/17/156.

Ervin.  6/5/26.

Lazard.  17/13/254.

Adams. 46/36/449.

Tonyan.  20/18/230.

Stern. 6/4/39

Shepherd. 6/3/37.

Taylor.  4/3/26.

MVS.  34/15/242.

Lewis.  8/3/31.

Lowest catch rate on the team, next to Lewis.

Lazard has more yards, still and hasn't played in 3 games.  And it isn't like MVS is just getting the contested balls on "go" routes.

 

[Arthur Penske]

42 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Barnes and Martin are exhibits A and B as to why you don't invest high draft capital on inside backers. Both look like they are going to be a good tandem together and they cost us a 5th and nothing but money. But, yeah, let's go get Patrick Queen or Kenneth Murray.

I’m usually all about this line of thought and I hope it turns out you’re correct, but Barnes and Martin have played 1 game together. Furthermore, GB hasn’t made investments in MLBrs for years and it’s cost then before.

TBs investments in MLBs worked pretty damn well vs GB too.

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Arthur Penske

[skibrett15]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

Lowest catch rate on the team, next to Lewis.

partly a product of the way he's being used - deep targets have a low catch rate.

7.1 y/t is not great, especially for a low volume guy like MVS.  

Jones is averaging <6 yards/target, which is abysmal.

 

Getting jones better looks and improving there should be easier than "fixing" MVS and is probably the best/most likely area for the offense to improve in.  Lazard has otherworldly efficiency on low volume - he's due to regress when he hits the field again.

[squire12]

6 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

partly a product of the way he's being used - deep targets have a low catch rate.

7.1 y/t is not great, especially for a low volume guy like MVS.  

Jones is averaging <6 yards/target, which is abysmal.

 

Getting jones better looks and improving there should be easier than "fixing" MVS and is probably the best/most likely area for the offense to improve in.  Lazard has otherworldly efficiency on low volume - he's due to regress when he hits the field again.

If Lazard can become Marquez Colston playing along Adams, that is a solid #2.   
MVS needs to be the deep threat that gives the Adams and Lazard the ability to work underneath. Mix in some MVS on the occasional shallow crosser that he can catch and turn up with his speed.

[vegas492]

6 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

partly a product of the way he's being used - deep targets have a low catch rate.

7.1 y/t is not great, especially for a low volume guy like MVS.  

Jones is averaging <6 yards/target, which is abysmal.

 

Getting jones better looks and improving there should be easier than "fixing" MVS and is probably the best/most likely area for the offense to improve in.  Lazard has otherworldly efficiency on low volume - he's due to regress when he hits the field again.

I can't remember a deep target for him in this past game.

I'm of the opinion that he lacks wide receiver awareness.  Like he just doesn't get "it" yet.  But, it took Adams a while to lock it down, too.

I'd like to see what he can and will do once Lazard comes back, providing we have Adams and Jones as well.  That is when he can and should get a few more favorable matchups.

But as of now, his catch rate is absurdly low.  

[skibrett15]

2 minutes ago, squire12 said:

If Lazard can become Marquez Colston playing along Adams, that is a solid #2.   

Yeah I think it's a good idea to focus on what lazard can do rather than worry too much about MVS.

MVS prospects are not super super common because he IS fast, but he doesn't catch contested balls and he doesn't track the ball exceptionally well or set up his defenders to create deep separation.  He kind of just... runs.

 

Colston was a superb route technician with amazing body control who played with a QB who was master of ball placement.  Lazard isn't quite that and Rodgers isn't quite that but I think he's got more athleticism than colston.

 

[skibrett15]

3 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I can't remember a deep target for him in this past game.

I'm of the opinion that he lacks wide receiver awareness.  Like he just doesn't get "it" yet.  But, it took Adams a while to lock it down, too.

I'd like to see what he can and will do once Lazard comes back, providing we have Adams and Jones as well.  That is when he can and should get a few more favorable matchups.

But as of now, his catch rate is absurdly low.  

yeah, and this was easily his worst game.  I think you have to give him a small pass since his other games were either ok or good

[vegas492]

14 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

yeah, and this was easily his worst game.  I think you have to give him a small pass since his other games were either ok or good

I can give him a "pass", no problem.

But...this is year 3 for him...and it isn't like he hasn't been starting and seeing defenses.  With his physical gifts, he should be better.  I know the offense has him pulling some coverages here and there to open up some things, but he honestly should be better right now.

I'd like another good WR to be brought in....and I really hope it is Lazard.  

I liked the little we saw of Stern yesterday.  He looked pretty fast on his TD.  With him and Tonyan, I think we have a nice duo there.  Add to that Adams and Lazard, along with Jones and I think we will be fine.  Just hope MVS starts to "get it" and can become a factor.

I've honestly given up on ESB at this point and time.

[{Family Ghost}]

15 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I can't remember a deep target for him in this past game.

I'm of the opinion that he lacks wide receiver awareness.  Like he just doesn't get "it" yet.  But, it took Adams a while to lock it down, too.

I'd like to see what he can and will do once Lazard comes back, providing we have Adams and Jones as well.  That is when he can and should get a few more favorable matchups.

But as of now, his catch rate is absurdly low.  

MVS is lacking in awareness and natural pass catching skills.  His hands are mediocre at best.  The Packers should be looking for an upgrade there this next offseason.  I see him as a #3 or #4 WR at best.  I'm almost ready to write off ESB as well. He's hurt all the time, and now that he's returned he doesn't seem to have much of a role at all.  Sheperd is basically worthless.  Not sure on Malik Taylor, but he's more than likely nothing more than a 5th or 6th receiver.  If the Packers can add a talented wideout at the trade deadline it would be a smart move.

Beyond 2020 we really need a young wideout with #1 type skills.  Adams has missed a number of games the past few years, plus he's going to be tough to resign.  Lazard has won me over .. he's a good player and a solid #2 for us.  We need that young stud to fit in behind those two.  

[vegas492]

9 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

MVS is lacking in awareness and natural pass catching skills.  His hands are mediocre at best.  The Packers should be looking for an upgrade there this next offseason.  I see him as a #3 or #4 WR at best.  I'm almost ready to write off ESB as well. He's hurt all the time, and now that he's returned he doesn't seem to have much of a role at all.  Sheperd is basically worthless.  Not sure on Malik Taylor, but he's more than likely nothing more than a 5th or 6th receiver.  If the Packers can add a talented wideout at the trade deadline it would be a smart move.

Beyond 2020 we really need a young wideout with #1 type skills.  Adams has missed a number of games the past few years, plus he's going to be tough to resign.  Lazard has won me over .. he's a good player and a solid #2 for us.  We need that young stud to fit in behind those two.  

Yup.  As of now, I don't feel like MVS is the kind of guy you give a second contract to.  At least not one that would pay him as a #2 WR.

And that is fine, because we have Lazard for a while.  But we do need to start backfilling that position.

Which is why we should flip our second or third round pick to the Cowboys for Gallup.  He's on his rookie deal this year and next year.  

[AlexGreen#20]

2 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Saw MVS come up in the thread.

This game.  MVS.  4 targets, 0 catches.

Adams, 16 targets, 13 catches.  Williams.  5 targets, 4 catches.  Tonyan, 2 for 2.  Lewis, 1 for 3.  Taylor, 2 for 2.  Stern, 1 for 1.  Shepherd 1 for 0.  MVS.  4 for 0.

Wouldn't really concern me, but....for the season...

Player/targets/catches yards.

Jones.  28/18/161.

Williams.  19/17/156.

Ervin.  6/5/26.

Lazard.  17/13/254.

Adams. 46/36/449.

Tonyan.  20/18/230.

Stern. 6/4/39

Shepherd. 6/3/37.

Taylor.  4/3/26.

MVS.  34/15/242.

Lewis.  8/3/31.

Lowest catch rate on the team, next to Lewis.

Lazard has more yards, still and hasn't played in 3 games.  And it isn't like MVS is just getting the contested balls on "go" routes.

 

This doesn't mean anything without removing the throw aways. MVS has been the target of more throw aways than Lazard has incompletions.

Marking MVS for 0-4 yesterday is nonsense when 2-4 were throwaways, and another was arguably a bad throw.

[packfanfb]

8 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

This doesn't mean anything without removing the throw aways. MVS has been the target of more throw aways than Lazard has incompletions.

Marking MVS for 0-4 yesterday is nonsense when 2-4 were throwaways, and another was arguably a bad throw.

You're going to die on this hill aren't you? I respect it. We all have to die defending something. 

[StinkySauce]

7 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

This doesn't mean anything without removing the throw aways. MVS has been the target of more throw aways than Lazard has incompletions.

Marking MVS for 0-4 yesterday is nonsense when 2-4 were throwaways, and another was arguably a bad throw.

It seems Rodgers often thinks MVS is supposed to be somewhere he isn't.