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Are the Browns a good bad team or a bad good team?


Apparition

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I think if I had to choose between the qualifiers I’d say they’re a bad good team. As while they lost to the Steelers and Ravens by 30, they’re such an inconsistent team (and they were without Chubb against the Steelers) that I think in the second meetings with both teams they could perform at their best and grind through an “upset” victory. They’re a team that it wouldn’t surprise me if they beat the Raiders by 2 scores or lose to the Raiders by 2 scores.

More appropriately described, I personally wouldn’t call them a “bad” good team. I think they’re a good team without a surefire identity. And because they’re without an identity when the going gets tough the rails can fall off.

However I think the Browns are a team that can realistically beat most any team in the league, they have a good coach in Stefanski and good to elite players at all the most important spots on the field (FTMP).

Matchups play an obvious part in all this of course, but I don’t particularly think they’re a bad team or even a “good” bad team, which I would define as a bad to mediocre team that has an identity (they’re just mediocre in its execution), of that qualifier I’d probably be more likely to place a team like the Colts (and maybe the Bears) into such a category, where they just don’t have enough ways to beat you like good teams do, but they can still beat you because they know exactly what kind of team they are and consistently put forth that kind of quality on a week to week basis. If either team gets blown out it’s likely because they were just overwhelmed by opposing talent and not because they made mistakes and couldn’t figure out a way to overcome such mistakes mentally over the course of the game.

Perhaps I’m doing this wrong in my definition of these terms, but that’s how I see it.

edit: And if anyone is offended I don’t remove my own team from any line of criticism. I’d say the Ravens are a bad elite team. They can blow most any team out in the NFL, but that’s only while everything is on schedule. The moment they get behind in down and distance or get behind in the game, they panic. In years past the defense was the identity. If the offense sputtered the defense was there to bail them out until the offense realized everything was alright. In recent seasons that hasn’t been the case (though it’s generally quite rare for them to ever get behind schedule), the defense has been incredibly unclutch, so even if it’s good, it’s not an anchor for the team to rely on. Which is what I mean when I say “bad”, it just means the same to me as inconsistent and unreliable in some element.

Edited by diamondbull424
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24 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Our point differential is in the negative cumulatively this year so far.

I wouldnt be mad if the Browns pulled a Matt Rhule and spent every draft pick on defense next year. The Browns defense is currently given up 31 points per game, good for somehow ONLY 28th in the NFL.

Edited by AkronsWitness
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The Browns are a bad good team until 2 things happen:

1.   Baker Mayfield gets better with pressure and placement/anticipation.   The OL is doing a fantastic job.   The WR's are getting open - Baker's biggest struggles are when pressure does get there, he's so jumpy; and he's been late on getting the ball in tight windows, and by the time he throws, it's closed (the 1st CIN game pick that swung the momentum was a classic example).  

2.  CLE improves their LB and safety play.   It's a huge reason to their run D vulnerabilities, and their coverage breakdowns.   

I expect their secondary play will improve as more DB's return.   The LB's are a major issue IMO. 

Until this happens, I think CLE stomps bad teams, beats mediocre teams, and get soundly beaten by good to great teams.    The crazy part is they're only 2-3 weaknesses away from fielding a complete team - but those weaknesses are just really exploitable (LB's on D, Baker's pressure vulnerability), or hard to forecast improvement (anticipation).  It's really hard to get a top 5 OL, and top 5 pass rush unit from your front 4 alone, but CLE has done it.  And they have a top 5 running game.  Those are the foundations to having perennial contenders.  They also have the CB's to provide great coverage.   Safety help (in theory Delpit was supposed to address), LB help & QB progression from Baker are what's needed to take the next step to serious contender.   I'm not optimistic on Baker, but there's time.  We'll see.

Edited by Broncofan
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Really curious to see Paul Depodestas influence on the team.

 

I’ve seen it suggested that his metrics place a HUGE value on defenses forcing turnovers. They’re most valuable than defenses actually getting stops and not giving up huge yardage.

 

Kinda makes sense with how our team is built. They get destroyed through the air, but have forced the most turnovers out of any other team.

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They're definitely not as good as their record.

They just went toe to toe with a 1-4 Bengal team with a rookie, albeit extraordinary, QB and easily could have lost. The teams looked dead even. That said, the Browns are missing two of the league's best players in RB Chubb & OG Teller.

Past the generally poor play of Mayfield, which really is the biggest difference maker for how good the team can be..they're also kind of just a soft team for the identity they're forging. I think that's really bore out vs Baltimore and Pittsburgh. But when the previous regime builds a team around a WR duo that'll probably happen. A QB that's at least a solid game manger and another physical tone setter on each side of the ball and I think they'll greatly step up their play vs good teams.

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