Giant Tidbits: Random team discussion & rumors

[TheRealMcCoy]

8 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

Depends on what standard for good you are going by. If you are going with the typical Eagles fan standard for Giants players, if you don't make the pro-bowl or the all-pro team you suck.  Then none of OL is any good. You know the same standard Eagles fan don't apply to their own players.

Not sure why you think I'm taking shots. It was an honest question. I'm curious where the optimism is coming from, because the Giants offensive line was objectively bad last year. There wasn't one OL that was good last year. Average? Maybe. Obviously that means they have nowhere to go but up though and the context you provided is important, but they have a lot to prove this year. Same with our wide receivers. I can provide context to Reagor's bad season just like you can with Thomas, but at the end of the day they gotta show it on the field this year.

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31. NEW YORK GIANTS

With one year in the books, the Giants can’t be feeling good about their decision to take Andrew Thomas as the first tackle off the board in last year’s draft, given the season he had compared to the tackles selected after him. Thomas allowed 57 pressures at left tackle this season, 14 more than any other player at the position. He was the only player at the position to be charged with 10 sacks allowed, as well.

As you could guess for a team coming in at second to last on this list, Thomas wasn’t the only problem up front for the Giants. Shane Lemieux and Will Hernandez both allowed pressure rates of at least 8% at left guard, while Cameron Fleming — filling in for the opted-out Nate Solder — allowed the sixth most pressures in the league at the right tackle position.

 

This was from PFF's final OL rankings after the season. Not disagreeing that coaching, the lack of experience, injuries, and so on weren't huge factors. However, there is no way around it being objectively bad last year and for them to be the worst projected o-line still going into this year. It's not like you added much there. For perspective we were ranked 19th and we were probably more banged up with injuries without a doubt and we had an undrafted rookie at guard and a 7th round pick who never strapped on a helmet back in 2018 starting at LT in what was his first real starting experience (outside preseason). Both played fairly well which is a credit to the coaching of Stoutland, so I get your reason for optimism in regards to Colombo getting the boot.

8 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

If you are asking who we  believe will be good, that is a different question. Except for Will Hernandez, all the expected Giants starters were rookies or were playing the position for the first time.  They did not have a real offseason or any preseason games to help them. On top of that one of the reasons why the offensive line coach was fired was for teaching our OL the wrong techniques to use. When factoring the Giants OL will have a real off season along with preseason games, along with better coaching, that alone should have the Giants OL improved.

That's fair. What exactly were the wrong techniques he was teaching them? I just remember the weird rumor about him fighting Judge and giving him a black eye lol.

8 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

When Joe Judge got involved with the offensive line, teaching the proper techniques, Andrew Thomas improved, he was also playing through an injury during the entire season. We believe Andrew Thomas will be good.

Has Judge ever even coached OL? I'll admit I wasn't a big fan of the Thomas pick. I liked Wills (he struggled too), Becton, and Wirfs better. I'll take your word for it on him getting better as the season went on, but he struggled mightily regardless as a rookie which isn't really a huge deal, especially starting at a position as hard as LT. I'm not really super worried about Wills after one year, so I don't think you need to be too worried about Thomas. If he struggles this year same as Reagor for us, then we might need to start reaching for the panic button. Hopefully he can build on the latter part of last season.

8 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

Matt Peart was drafted because he had all the physical tools with the lone exception that he had the body of tight end and was going to need an offseason  to gain a true offensive tackle body. Matt Peart also played well with his limited snaps before he caught Covid-19. This off season Matt Peart gained the weight and is a massive man. This should be his first season starting, I would be happy if he just played to an average level this year. I expected him to be good if not dominant in 2022 and beyond.

HIs 3 cone was also terrible, so he probably doesn't have the flexibility, but he has strong hands and he's super long... almost 37" arms is nuts lol, but yeah I remember him being heralded as a developmental mid round guy.

8 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

Will Hernandez was drafted to be a mauler, this coaching staff want their guards to be athletic and mobile which Hernandez was not last season, he was also playing with an injury last year while dealing with complications from Covid-19. Having a real off season to work with, he has slimmed down, he also in the last year of his rookie deal and is playing for his next contract. Can Will Hernandez be good next season, I believe he will but would not put money on it. I can say he will be better than he was in 2020.

Shane Lemieux, is a good run blocker and horrible at pass protection. I am not sure a 5th round draft pick can all of a sudden make himself good at pass protection, he is the the one I have the most doubts about.

Good stuff.

This was probably Hernandez worst season from the Giants games I watched. Didn't know about COVID. I'm sure that had a big effect on a lot of players this past year. Do you think he's not suited for this scheme? He was never the most athletic guy even coming out of college. I know he's gonna be a FA after this year. Are you leaning towards not paying him as it stands? I know its wait and see mode to see how he comes back healthy and at a lower weight. Just trying to gauge the confidence level there.

Edited June 1, 2021 by TheRealMcCoy

[y*so*blu]

On 5/31/2021 at 4:53 PM, TheRealMcCoy said:

Just curious what part of that OL is any good?

Andrew Thomas, who showed improvement after Columbo's exit. A new OL coach in Rob Sale, who has a good college resume. The fact that most of our linemen are young and have time to get better.

Beyond that I don't see much to get excited about, but I have hope. Which, in itself, may be the most important thing Joe Judge has brought to the Giants.

[Gmen]

I plotted NextGenStats average separation (when the ball arrives), vs target air yards.  There is a correlation.  If you draw a diagonal line through the data, the players above the line are better at creating separation, players below the line are worse at creating separation.

Spot Golden Tate in both graphs.

I can't express what an upgrade Kadarius Toney is going to be over Tate in the short passing game.  Maybe not as refined of a player yet, but he's at least going to create separation with his athleticism.

Also, Check out John Ross in 2019.  Pretty good.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Gmen

[Shockwave]

So Golladay only averaged 1.5 yards separation in 2019? 😕

[Gmen]

44 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

So Golladay only averaged 1.5 yards separation in 2019? 😕

 

He would certainly be in the negative for separation +/-.  His saving grace is that he has size and that he's great in contested ball situations.

 

[Go_Giants]

On 6/1/2021 at 6:38 PM, TheRealMcCoy said:

 

 

On 6/1/2021 at 6:38 PM, TheRealMcCoy said:

Not sure why you think I'm taking shots. It was an honest question. I'm curious where the optimism is coming from, because the Giants offensive line was objectively bad last year.

Oh okay not used to Eagle fans coming on here and wanting to know our thoughts.

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That's fair. What exactly were the wrong techniques he was teaching them? I just remember the weird rumor about him fighting Judge and giving him a black eye lol. Has Judge ever even coached OL? I'll admit I wasn't a big fan of the Thomas pick. I liked Wills (he struggled too), Becton, and Wirfs better. 

I don't  know what the specific technique problems was, however I vaguely remember Andrew Thomas's college coach being frustrated that Andrew was using a different technique that was not working for him,  he did a video on what was wrong. I believe Judge saw the video or more likely talked to the coach then from there took upon himself to teach the o-linemen the right way. When Judge did that, it cemented for me that this is the right coach for Giants and I will have his back 100%. I do admit Thomas at one point was the last Tackle I wanted out of the big 4. I can understand Gettleman logic for drafting him, after wasting an early 1st round pick on Erek Flowers, we needed a safe pick, Thomas had the highest floor out of the big 4.

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This was probably Hernandez worst season from the Giants games I watched. Didn't know about COVID. I'm sure that had a big effect on a lot of players this past year. Do you think he's not suited for this scheme? He was never the most athletic guy even coming out of college. I know he's gonna be a FA after this year. Are you leaning towards not paying him as it stands? I know its wait and see mode to see how he comes back healthy and at a lower weight. Just trying to gauge the confidence level there.

I think the Giants are asking Hernandez to do what he is not built to do, but that does not mean he can't improve and learn and develop to the point of being  average or maybe even good at it. He is competitor being benched had to hurt him, playing for his next contract is also going to inspire him.

I doubt Hernandez will be a Giant next season. We don't have a lot cap room next year. So if Hernandez plays well we can't afford him, if he sucks we are not going to offer him a contract. Even if he just does okay, another team will offer him 75 cents on the dollar and have him be the mauler he was. The only way I see us keeping Hernandez is if he just does okay no other team wants him allowing the Giants to get away with just paying him 50 cents on the dollar.

[y*so*blu]

On 6/3/2021 at 11:48 AM, Go_Giants said:

 

Oh okay not used to Eagle fans coming on here and wanting to know our thoughts.

I don't  know what the specific technique problems was, however I vaguely remember Andrew Thomas's college coach being frustrated that Andrew was using a different technique that was not working for him,  he did a video on what was wrong. I believe Judge saw the video or more likely talked to the coach then from there took upon himself to teach the o-linemen the right way. When Judge did that, it cemented for me that this is the right coach for Giants and I will have his back 100%. I do admit Thomas at one point was the last Tackle I wanted out of the big 4. I can understand Gettleman logic for drafting him, after wasting an early 1st round pick on Erek Flowers, we needed a safe pick, Thomas had the highest floor out of the big 4.

Good point about Flowers. I wasn't a Giants fan yet when he played but it still hurt to watch that guy. Absolute bum.

I remember the interview with Thomas' college coach too. He pulled no punches about how much Thomas had regressed. As soon as Judge took matters into his own hands and out of Columbo's, the line started to improve and there were no more horror shows like the Niners game.

[y*so*blu]

Linebacker Blake Martinez joined NFL Network's "Good Morning Football" on Wednesday and spoke about everything from Saquon Barkley to his extensive Pokemon card collection. First and foremost, though, Martinez talked about the excitement level heading into the second year of the Joe Judge era.

"I think the vibe is extremely high, extremely happy, extremely excited," said Martinez, who was voted a team captain in his first season with the Giants in 2020.

 

[Gmen]

 

Good measure of pass protection.  Yes Daniel Jones held onto the ball too long at times and deserves blame for getting sacked.  But the offensive line was the worst in the league even when that is accounted for..

[ny92mike]

Omg...so ready for some football.

[y*so*blu]

38 minutes ago, ny92mike said:

Omg...so ready for some football.

Counting the days man...

We are 49 days away from our first preseason game (8/12 vs Jets) and 80 days away from the season opener.

 

[ny92mike]

Have you guys heard anything about the offensive line and how those guys are doing?

 

[y*so*blu]

4 hours ago, ny92mike said:

Have you guys heard anything about the offensive line and how those guys are doing?

 

Nothing lately. I wish we signed Morgan Moses while he was available, but apparently Judge is determined to roll with what we have.

Something that caught my eye in the Giants mailbag:

Anthony in Pennsylvania: Will Evan Engram see less snaps with the addition of Kyle Rudolph?

John Schmeelk: Rudolph's addition won't likely impact Engram's snaps, but you can expect his signing to impact the snaps of fellow tight ends Kaden Smith and Levine Toilolo. Although Engram and Rudolph can both catch the football, Engram has more field-stretching speed and big-play ability that's unlikely to be taken off the field very often.

That's a very diplomatic answer, but John left out the most important difference between them. Rudolph can catch the ball when it matters most, and Engram can't. Point blank.

If he doesn't put it together this year, I think we need to move on.

[Gmen]

 

[y*so*blu]

@ny92mike

Guy in Florida: What possible candidates are on the roster to play right guard? I am particularly interested in Kyle Murphy and the two undrafted rookies the Giants signed in May.

John Schmeelk: At this point there isn't much to say about undrafted free agents Brett Heggie and Jake Burton because there haven't been any padded practices yet to see how they can perform against NFL-caliber defensive linemen. Heggie started 31 games at the University of Florida over five years, starting 15 games at left guard, four at right guard, and 12 at center. In his redshirt senior season, he started all 12 games at center and most analysts consider him a center. Jake Burton played his graduate transfer season at Baylor and started his final eight games at right guard. From 2018-2019, Burton started 23 of 24 games at right guard for UCLA. Murphy was an undrafted free agent from Rhode Island in 2020. He started his final 21 games at Rhode Island as a left tackle but also logged nine starts at left guard, five at right tackle and one at center in his four collegiate seasons.

Then there are veterans Will Hernandez, Zach Fulton, Jonotthan Harrison, Kenny Wiggins, and Chad Slade. There's also a chance many of these same players will have a chance to compete with Shane Lemieux at left guard, as well.