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Giant Tidbits: Random team discussion & rumors


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I keep seeing mock drafts with the Giants taking a WR (Smith, Waddle), CB (Surtain, Horn) or Parsons.  Given what the Giants have done in free agency and the current make up of the roster, I don't think WR, CB, ILB are positions we should be targeting in round one. 

There was a big emphasis on getting DJ more weapons, rightly so.  The Giants paid handsomely for Kenny Golladay, and they still have Slayton and Shepard.  I'm not necessarily against drafting Waddle, and I'm not against drafting more weapons.  I just feel like the pick at #11 should be a marriage of value AND need.  

Cornerback makes even less sense.  I feel like no team in the league has invested more into their secondary than the Giants in the past two years. 

  • James Bradberry (3 years $43 millioni)
  • Adoree Jackson (3 years $39 million)
  • Logan Ryan (3 year $31 million)
  • Jabrill Peppers (OBJ trade)
  • Xavier McKinney (high 2nd round pick)
  • Darnay Holmes (4rth round)
  • Julian Love (4rth round)

And again, I'm not against drafting more DB talent because that is how a defense should be built in today's passing league.   But how are Horn or Surtain even going to get onto the field unless there are injuries? 

In most years the Giants have so many needs that BPA in the first round makes sense.  This year, I think the needs are pretty clear - OG and Edge. 

In his first two years DJ has been hit and sacked at one of the highest rates in the league, rivaled only by Russell Wilson.  The Giants are relying to the developing of their two young offensive tackles, but they also cut Zeitler and don't have a solid replacement on the roster.  A guy like Slater or Vera-Tucker can fill that need, and neither would be a reach at #11.

The second need is Edge defender.  The majority of the Giants pressures and sacks came from one player - Leonard Williams.  At Edge we have a bunch of JAGs. The Giants were also reportedly in hot pursuit of Leonard Floyd in free agency (second time they failed to get him, allegedly), so there is a desire to upgrade the position.  Lots of options in the draft at Edge in the late first round - Ojulari, Oweh, Paye.  Maybe the Giants can get lucky and one of these guys drops to the second round.

 

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There still are many problems the Giants have. Wide receiver is still a big need. All the skill positions on the giants have miss time because of injuries. WR is a big need.  There was no separation last year or the year before and Jones is throwing in the tightest windows in the league. The wprst separation and easy drop balls (ENGRAM). They have to give Jones a chance. Oline or Wr has to be the first 2 picks

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51 minutes ago, Cuziam71 said:

There still are many problems the Giants have. Wide receiver is still a big need. All the skill positions on the giants have miss time because of injuries. WR is a big need.  There was no separation last year or the year before and Jones is throwing in the tightest windows in the league. The wprst separation and easy drop balls (ENGRAM). They have to give Jones a chance. Oline or Wr has to be the first 2 picks

I think adding Golladay will help Slayton, who is a #2 WR that was shoved into a #1 role last year.  He wasn't a good #1 receiver going up against team's best corners, but I think he can be a good #2.  So I think having Golladay helps the rest of these guys. 

That being said, I wouldn't be against a WR in round 2 or beyond.  In fact, I'd like to see it.  I just don't see the big need for Smith or Waddle at #11 overall.   If Jamar Chase is somehow there at #11, I'd make an exception.

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5 hours ago, Gmen said:

I keep seeing mock drafts with the Giants taking a WR (Smith, Waddle), CB (Surtain, Horn) or Parsons.  Given what the Giants have done in free agency and the current make up of the roster, I don't think WR, CB, ILB are positions we should be targeting in round one. 

There was a big emphasis on getting DJ more weapons, rightly so.  The Giants paid handsomely for Kenny Golladay, and they still have Slayton and Shepard.  I'm not necessarily against drafting Waddle, and I'm not against drafting more weapons.  I just feel like the pick at #11 should be a marriage of value AND need.  

Cornerback makes even less sense.  I feel like no team in the league has invested more into their secondary than the Giants in the past two years. 

  • James Bradberry (3 years $43 millioni)
  • Adoree Jackson (3 years $39 million)
  • Logan Ryan (3 year $31 million)
  • Jabrill Peppers (OBJ trade)
  • Xavier McKinney (high 2nd round pick)
  • Darnay Holmes (4rth round)
  • Julian Love (4rth round)

And again, I'm not against drafting more DB talent because that is how a defense should be built in today's passing league.   But how are Horn or Surtain even going to get onto the field unless there are injuries? 

In most years the Giants have so many needs that BPA in the first round makes sense.  This year, I think the needs are pretty clear - OG and Edge. 

In his first two years DJ has been hit and sacked at one of the highest rates in the league, rivaled only by Russell Wilson.  The Giants are relying to the developing of their two young offensive tackles, but they also cut Zeitler and don't have a solid replacement on the roster.  A guy like Slater or Vera-Tucker can fill that need, and neither would be a reach at #11.

The second need is Edge defender.  The majority of the Giants pressures and sacks came from one player - Leonard Williams.  At Edge we have a bunch of JAGs. The Giants were also reportedly in hot pursuit of Leonard Floyd in free agency (second time they failed to get him, allegedly), so there is a desire to upgrade the position.  Lots of options in the draft at Edge in the late first round - Ojulari, Oweh, Paye.  Maybe the Giants can get lucky and one of these guys drops to the second round.

I've drafted Tucker in both my tcmd and the ffmd mock.  I've been saying this for awhile.  Sure we could use another receiver but someone like Nico Collins in the 3rd/4th would be a solid addition, while using our early picks to address the offensive line issues.  There is also a lot of talent at edge in this draft and believe we could land a solid one in the 2nd or even moving up a few spots to get in the bottom of the 1st.  Also feel we could trade down a few spots at 11 and still land Tucker.  Could use what we get in the early trade to move up.

Edited by ny92mike
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What draft prospects do you guys like in this first round, that fit our needs?  No specific order but I'd be happy with any of these guys.

  • 1st Rnd - Pick 11 | Overall: 11
    • Jaylen Waddle, WR
    • Micah Parsons, OLB
    • Rashawn Slate, OG
    • Alijah Vera-Tucker, OG
  • 2nd Rnd - Pick 10 | Overall: 42
  • 3rd Rnd - Pick 12 | Overall: 76
  • 4th Rnd - Pick 11 | Overall: 116
  • 6th Rnd - Pick 12 | Overall: 196
  • 6th Rnd - Pick 17 | Overall: 201
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If the team can fix their offensive line issues with this draft, I believe we've got the talent at receiver and RB to start winning some games.  

I'd like to see the team draft AV Tucker first round and Trey Hill, IOL Georgia in the 4th if still available.  Played center for Georgia, but I believe he's got the skills to play any interior line position at a high level.  Adding these two guys would shore up our line issues.  

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I'm usually onboard with the "stock the Oline" strategy. And it's no doubt the Gmen have year in and out dedicated top picks to protection: https://www.bigblueview.com/2021/4/7/22370678/nfl-draft-ny-giants-have-checkered-history-drafting-offensive-tackles-over-past-decade
 

But...where has it gotten us? We've allotted the most draft capital to T and how many studs do we have to show for it? Maybe it's time for a strategy change? Maybe talented skill positions players that create separation help the protection problem more so then stud lineman? Maybe fielding a squad of athletic, skilled route runners would make the pass blocking much easier? 

Or maybe adding a defensive disruptive force like Parsons (despite his character issues) would put the defense over the edge? Olineman seems like a safe and productive pick...but does recent history really back it up?

Edited by Shockwave
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1 hour ago, Shockwave said:

I'm usually onboard with the "stock the Oline" strategy. And it's no doubt the Gmen have year in and out dedicated top picks to protection: https://www.bigblueview.com/2021/4/7/22370678/nfl-draft-ny-giants-have-checkered-history-drafting-offensive-tackles-over-past-decade
 

But...where has it gotten us? We've allotted the most draft capital to T and how many studs do we have to show for it? Maybe it's time for a strategy change? Maybe talented skill positions players that create separation help the protection problem more so then stud lineman? Maybe fielding a squad of athletic, skilled route runners would make the pass blocking much easier? 

Or maybe adding a defensive disruptive force like Parsons (despite his character issues) would put the defense over the edge? Olineman seems like a safe and productive pick...but does recent history really back it up?

I simply look at value of a Q. Nelson would have done to our OL vs drafting a running back.  

Route runners still rely on their line to buy them the time to get open.  More often than not the ugly pick is the right pick.

Most of that list in the link you posted were 4th or later round picks and Pugh was drafted to play inside and Flowers was a panic pick imo...wasn't a fan when they drafted him.  Andrews last year was really the only one worth the pick they gave up for him. 

I think our tackles are set, we should be focused on improving the interior.  Relying on W. Hernandez isn't any better than what we did with Flowers.  Forcing him to start just because we drafted him high.     

Jerry Reese

2011: Round 4, Pick 117 - James Brewer, Indiana
2012: Round 4, Pick 131 - Brandon Mosley, Auburn
2012: Round 6, Pick 201 - Matt McCants, Alabama-Birmingham
2013: Round 1, Pick 19 - Justin Pugh, Syracuse
2015: Round 1, Pick 9 - Ereck Flowers, Miami
2015: Round 7, Pick 226 - Bobby Hart, Florida State
2017: Round 6, Pick 200 - Adam Bisnowaty, Pittsburgh
Dave Gettleman

2019: Round 7, Pick 232 - George Asafo-Adjei, Kentucky
2020: Round 1, Pick 4 - Andrew Thomas, Georgia
2020: Round 3, Pick 99 - Matt Peart, UCONN

 

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I'm with @Shockwave in that, unless Sewell or Slater is available, I am 100% fine waiting until the 2nd or even later to get an interior OL. We have already invested a lot into the OL. We need that talent to develop now. I think the Giants feel confident in the pieces they've grabbed recently and in their ability to develop these players. Don't forget, we hired Rob Sale to be our OL coach this year who is known for developing OL.

https://www.bigblueview.com/2021/2/8/22272950/3-things-to-know-about-rob-sale-who-will-reportedly-become-giants-offensive-line-coach

 

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I want to go on record before the draft that I think Devonta Smith is phenomenal, I think he will be the best WR to come out of this draft, and I hope the Giants draft him.

He's a prospect where all negatives are nitpicking. Watch the tape and tell me what he can't do.

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17 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

I want to go on record before the draft that I think Devonta Smith is phenomenal, I think he will be the best WR to come out of this draft, and I hope the Giants draft him.

He's a prospect where all negatives are nitpicking. Watch the tape and tell me what he can't do.

I'm worried a little about Smith's size. 6'1 178 seems pretty frail. But I guess that's almost the exact size Marvin Harrison was during his NFL tenure. Waddle sounds like the more explosive option. I like Smith alot but is his skillset redundant to Slayton And Shep? Would a guy like Waddle who could take the top off the defense be a better pick?

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6 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

I'm worried a little about Smith's size. 6'1 178 seems pretty frail. But I guess that's almost the exact size Marvin Harrison was during his NFL tenure. Waddle sounds like the more explosive option. I like Smith alot but is his skillset redundant to Slayton And Shep? Would a guy like Waddle who could take the top off the defense be a better pick?

Smith is a versatile wideout who can play any spot and will get open at any spot. His route running is impeccable and he absolutely flies. I think Waddle being on his team has done Smith a disservice, because on any other team, Smith would be the fast guy who can take the top off a defense. He's not quite as quick as Waddle, but he makes up for that with his route running. 

Waddle will be a good pro as well, but I think Smith is better and you don't have to scheme for him. Just line him up anywhere, against anyone, and let him go.

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18 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

I'm worried a little about Smith's size. 6'1 178 seems pretty frail. But I guess that's almost the exact size Marvin Harrison was during his NFL tenure. Waddle sounds like the more explosive option. I like Smith alot but is his skillset redundant to Slayton And Shep? Would a guy like Waddle who could take the top off the defense be a better pick?

 

166  😬

Best comp size wise is Desean Jackson or Robbie Anderson

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