Giant Tidbits: Random team discussion & rumors

[Gmen]

7 minutes ago, Acgott said:

Your 5 and 6 are likely to happen, so I’ll just relax for these next 36 hours. It’s been a different draft for me, trying not to get worked up.

No worries, I've learned to put football into perspective in the grand scheme of life as I've gotten older

[Gmen19851]

2 hours ago, Gmen said:

Giants draft scenerios.  Ranked highest to lowest, complete with emojis.

1. Trade down into pick #16 - #24 range, get up a few extra picks and draft Slater, AVT, Oweh or Ojulari.  😀
2. Trade up in the unlikely case that Sewell or Chase fall to pick #8. 😊
3. Draft Rashawn Slater or Alijah Vera Tucker at pick #11.  🙂
4. Draft Azeez Ojulari or Jayson Oweh at pick #11 😏
5. Draft Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith at pick #11 🤨
6. Draft a player at a stacked position like CB or DT 😐
7. Draft a new QB at pick #11 😮
8. Draft Micah Parsons at pick #11 🥴

I basically concur with all of your emojis

[Gmen19851]

Can someone explain to me their thinking behind drafting a receiver at 11?  We have a solid three WR set with Golloday, Sheppard and Slayton.  We have two competent tight ends with Engram and Rudolph.  I don't think this offense needs another weapon.  I think our smartest pick at 11 would actually be Jaycee Horn.  I love the fact that he played against top competition in the SEC and more so than that matched up with teams other number 1's rather than play a side.  I think a really good CB2 is the player this young defense needs to be set up for years to come to be a really good unit.  We have the rest of the draft to try to build up offensive depth.  

[Go_Giants]

34 minutes ago, Gmen19851 said:

Can someone explain to me their thinking behind drafting a receiver at 11?  We have a solid three WR set with Golloday, Sheppard and Slayton.  We have two competent tight ends with Engram and Rudolph.  I don't think this offense needs another weapon.  I think our smartest pick at 11 would actually be Jaycee Horn.  I love the fact that he played against top competition in the SEC and more so than that matched up with teams other number 1's rather than play a side.  I think a really good CB2 is the player this young defense needs to be set up for years to come to be a really good unit.  We have the rest of the draft to try to build up offensive depth.  

Smartest move? We already have a young CB2 that we are paying 13 million a year. If  someone makes the point he could get hurt, you can say the same thing about Golladay and the need to draft a wideout with the 11th pick.

I believe the smartest move would be to get a dynamic edge or linebacker, I believe the safest move would be to draft an offensive lineman. 

I think we have good depth at wideout as we do at cornerback but if the Giants want to use our first round pick at either position I am good with it.

[Shockwave]

25 minutes ago, Gmen19851 said:

Can someone explain to me their thinking behind drafting a receiver at 11?  We have a solid three WR set with Golloday, Sheppard and Slayton.  We have two competent tight ends with Engram and Rudolph.  I don't think this offense needs another weapon.  I think our smartest pick at 11 would actually be Jaycee Horn.  I love the fact that he played against top competition in the SEC and more so than that matched up with teams other number 1's rather than play a side.  I think a really good CB2 is the player this young defense needs to be set up for years to come to be a really good unit.  We have the rest of the draft to try to build up offensive depth.  

- Shep 5 seasons has only been healthy for 2, Galloday coming off a 5 game season where he missed time from a hammy and a hip inury.
 

Quote

I don't think this offense needs another weapon.

2020: 31st in yards, 31st in points scored
2019: 23rd in yards, 19 in points scored
You know what hasn't worked? Drafting lineman after lineman. Surrounding DJ with weapons and depth is the smarter play.

I'm not ready to give up on EE yet... but he's completely unreliable and prone to boneheaded mistakes. This is a make or break season for him. So far he's been more of a liability then an asset.

I don't think Horn makes much sense. The secondary is well stocked. What would elevate this defense to elite level would be a formidable edge rusher.

For me the picks that make the most sense are interior Oline, WR, and Edge.

[Gmen19851]

7 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

Smartest move? We already have a young CB2 that we are paying 13 million a year. If  someone makes the point he could get hurt, you can say the same thing about Golladay and the need to draft a wideout with the 11th pick.

I believe the smartest move would be to get a dynamic edge or linebacker, I believe the safest move would be to draft an offensive lineman. 

I think we have good depth at wideout as we do at cornerback but if the Giants want to use our first round pick at either position I am good with it.

The value wont be there for that unless you're talking about Parsons, who I'd be fine with

[Gmen19851]

7 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

- Shep 5 seasons has only been healthy for 2, Galloday coming off a 5 game season where he missed time from a hammy and a hip inury.
 

2020: 31st in yards, 31st in points scored
2019: 23rd in yards, 19 in points scored
You know what hasn't worked? Drafting lineman after lineman. Surrounding DJ with weapons and depth is the smarter play.

I'm not ready to give up on EE yet... but he's completely unreliable and prone to boneheaded mistakes. This is a make or break season for him. So far he's been more of a liability then an asset.

I don't think Horn makes much sense. The secondary is well stocked. What would elevate this defense to elite level would be a formidable edge rusher.

For me the picks that make the most sense are interior Oline, WR, and Edge.

Sure, but again I'd blame our offensive woes last year on 1. Lack of a consistent line, 2. loss or barkley, 3. bad play calling and 4. lack of a true offseason with a young qb and new coach all before I would use lack of weapons as a reason for our offense being bad.  

 

Also yes, we have spent a lot of resources in order to get this offensive line fixed, but lets not forget that Gettleman wasn't here for all of them.  The only premium resource he has used was for Thomas last  year and the jury is still out on him.  He has a good history of finding offensive lineman in Carolina and I'm optimistic about this coaching staff when it comes to developing players.  

 

It comes down to how you want the team to use their resources.  I personally think the number 11 overall pick is too rich for a receiver that has question marks like Smith.  CB is a premium position and could really improve our unit.  I think we would have more success finding a WR in the 2-3-4 round range than a player who I truly believe can be a shut down corner like Horn.  Our top 3 receivers are 2nd, 3rd and 5th round picks right now so who's to say we couldn't find another one?

[Gmen]

20 minutes ago, Gmen19851 said:

Sure, but again I'd blame our offensive woes last year on 1. Lack of a consistent line, 2. loss or barkley, 3. bad play calling and 4. lack of a true offseason with a young qb and new coach all before I would use lack of weapons as a reason for our offense being bad.  

 

Also yes, we have spent a lot of resources in order to get this offensive line fixed, but lets not forget that Gettleman wasn't here for all of them.  The only premium resource he has used was for Thomas last  year and the jury is still out on him.  He has a good history of finding offensive lineman in Carolina and I'm optimistic about this coaching staff when it comes to developing players.  

 

It comes down to how you want the team to use their resources.  I personally think the number 11 overall pick is too rich for a receiver that has question marks like Smith.  CB is a premium position and could really improve our unit.  I think we would have more success finding a WR in the 2-3-4 round range than a player who I truly believe can be a shut down corner like Horn.  Our top 3 receivers are 2nd, 3rd and 5th round picks right now so who's to say we couldn't find another one?

To you point, DJ has been hit and sacked at one of the highest rates since he came into the league.  And the only real move the Giants have made along the O-line this offseason was cutting Zeitler. 

I know Giants fans are hoping for progress from the young guys we drafted last year, but what if it doesn't happen?  What if Peart doesn't develop into a starting quality tackle? 

We can have the best WRs in the league, it won't matter much if DJ keeps getting hit. The Superbowl was a reminder that even elite QBs look human when the O-line is a turnstile.

So, that's why I've been banging the drum for a versatile OL like Slater or AVT.  Hedge our bets.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Gmen

[Go_Giants]

18 minutes ago, Gmen said:

 

I know Giants fans are hoping for progress from the young guys we drafted last year, but what if it doesn't happen?  What if Peart doesn't develop into a starting quality tackle? 

 

If Peart does not develop then we have Solder as the backup plan. I don't think the Giants are going to be that unlucky that both Peart and Solder will suck. I believe our o-line will be fine if we use a 2nd round pick on a guard.

[Gmen]

3 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

If Peart does not develop then we have Solder as the backup plan. I don't think the Giants are going to be that unlucky that both Peart and Solder will suck. I believe our o-line will be fine if we use a 2nd round pick on a guard.

Solder is 33, didn't play last year, and didn't exactly play great before that either.  But yea, I kind of forgot about Solder tbh.

I'm not against the idea of a guard in round two either.  I think OL and Edge should be addressed in rounds 1 and 2.  Don't really care about the order.

[Shockwave]

So a takeaway from that chart. I notice how most of the elite QB's (aside from Wilson) are in the lower rates of hits and sacks. Does it correlate that those QB's all have great olines? Does it correlate to the amount of seperation their receiving corps are getting? Or does that suggest it's their ability to read defenses, audible, react, and get rid of the ball quickly? How so would Wilson be able to go 4200 40/13 with such a porous Oline? QB hits and sacks don't automatically and exclusively suggest bad Oline play. If WR's aren't getting separation or a QB isn't reading the defense or seeing the field well he's going to get hit alot.

How is the Chiefs oline a turnstile if this chart suggests they are top 5 in hits and sacks allowed? Perhaps they just ran into a buzzsaw D in the SB just like Brady did in 2007.

Giants used a 3rd round pick on Peart so I'd like for him to at least get a shot. Getting Solder back will make for some depth with Thomas, Hernandez and Lemieux. I'm not totally opposed to an Olineman if it's interior. However I think an Edge rusher or an additional offensive playmaker will make the biggest impact.

[Gmen]

12 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

So a takeaway from that chart. I notice how most of the elite QB's (aside from Wilson) are in the lower rates of hits and sacks. Does it correlate that those QB's all have great olines? Does it correlate to the amount of seperation their receiving corps are getting? Or does that suggest it's their ability to read defenses, audible, react, and get rid of the ball quickly? How so would Wilson be able to go 4200 40/13 with such a porous Oline? QB hits and sacks don't automatically and exclusively suggest bad Oline play. If WR's aren't getting separation or a QB isn't reading the defense or seeing the field well he's going to get hit alot.

How is the Chiefs oline a turnstile if this chart suggests they are top 5 in hits and sacks allowed? Perhaps they just ran into a buzzsaw D in the SB just like Brady did in 2007.

Giants used a 3rd round pick on Peart so I'd like for him to at least get a shot. Getting Solder back will make for some depth with Thomas, Hernandez and Lemieux. I'm not totally opposed to an Olineman if it's interior. However I think an Edge rusher or an additional offensive playmaker will make the biggest impact.

All of this is true, high sack and QB hit rates doesn't necessarily imply bad O-line.  It's usually a combination of the things you mentioned - OL play, WR separation, QB processing speed.  I think a better measure of OL play would be how many QB sacks and hits happen when the QB holds onto the ball for less than 2.5 seconds (or some other threshold).   Unfortunately, this data isn't available to me. 

NextGenStats measures average QB time-to-throw and Jones was average in that department last year. 

IIRC PFF charted the Giants OL pretty low last year, and I'm fairly sure they account for things like the QB holding onto the ball too long.

[minutemancl]

One thing to keep in mind that everyone seems to forget: you draft players, not positions. 

[Acgott]

35 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

One thing to keep in mind that everyone seems to forget: you draft players, not positions. 

We should always focus on BPA. We had a bad 6-10 team last season. We were bad at WR. We were bad at CB2-10. We were bad at OL. All of those are premier positions. I don’t feel comfortable at any one of those positions still. Take the best player availabe, and hope the coaches know how to use him and the other 52 correctly.

[ny92mike]

7 hours ago, Gmen said:

Giants draft scenerios.  Ranked highest to lowest, complete with emojis.

1. Trade down into pick #16 - #24 range, get up a few extra picks and draft Slater, AVT, Oweh or Ojulari.  😀
2. Trade up in the unlikely case that Sewell or Chase fall to pick #8. 😊
3. Draft Rashawn Slater or Alijah Vera Tucker at pick #11.  🙂
4. Draft Azeez Ojulari or Jayson Oweh at pick #11 😏
5. Draft Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith at pick #11 🤨
6. Draft a player at a stacked position like CB or DT 😐
7. Draft a new QB at pick #11 😮
8. Draft Micah Parsons at pick #11 🥴

If we could trade down a few spots and draft Tucker and then use the gained draft capital to trade back into the first and pick up an edge that would be ideal imo.

We need to fix the interior oline if this offense is ever going to improve.