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Giant Tidbits: Random team discussion & rumors


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1 hour ago, minutemancl said:

Williams over Robinson, with the knowledge that we can draft a contributor at WR in the draft. There isn't a DL like Williams available to us this year in the draft.

Yeah, I think the argument is not replacing Leonard Williams at his position but replacing his production at other positions. The Giants had <10 sacks TOTAL by EDGE players this season. Williams's run stopping can be replaced at his position but the sacks would need to come from other positions realistically. It's a tough argument both ways. Rookie WRs have produced a lot over the last few drafts but there's still a risk of busts. Just ask the Eagles lol

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What do you guys think of Haason Reddick? This was his first year of him playing EDGE full time and he exploded for 12.5 Sacks (5 against our horrid O-Line). I think he could be a good buy low ascending candidate. 

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25 minutes ago, YogiBiz said:

What do you guys think of Haason Reddick? This was his first year of him playing EDGE full time and he exploded for 12.5 Sacks (5 against our horrid O-Line). I think he could be a good buy low ascending candidate. 

I was a big fan of his coming out of the draft. He finally hit his stride when they allowed him to play purely as an edge rusher. His sack numbers are a bit inflated due the game, ironically, against us, but he's still a good, young, versatile player. He'd be a great signing for us.

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2 hours ago, minutemancl said:

I was a big fan of his coming out of the draft. He finally hit his stride when they allowed him to play purely as an edge rusher. His sack numbers are a bit inflated due the game, ironically, against us, but he's still a good, young, versatile player. He'd be a great signing for us.

Honestly I thought that as well.  But even if he only had 2 sacks versus us he would’ve finished 2nd on the team with 11.5 sacks. If we resign Williams and let BJ Hill replace Tomlinson (I think BJ is a much better pass rusher from the middle than Tomlinson) we could afford Reddick at around 10~12M avg annually on a four year deal.  And if he keeps getting double digit sack years that’s a steal in this free agent class with much guys looking for those contracts in the late 16-18 avg annually also. Romeo Okoro has put up his second good season in three tries. Putting up 10 Sacks this season. And he’s a free agent. We could probably get him cheaper again. Even though he might not wanna come back. 

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On 1/11/2021 at 12:07 PM, Go_Giants said:

According to these guys McKinney had a very strong game against Dallas and they are willing to show anyone how.

 

I agree. I wrote that before Week 17. The Dallas game was the first time McKinney really grabbed my attention and consistently made plays. I'm excited to see how he'll develop next season. Thanks for the link BTW! Tainah is one of the best Giants content creators out there.

Of late I am daydreaming of Allen Robinson in a Giants uniform. Hearing he was unhappy in Chicago was no surprise. There's no receiver on the market I would want more than him.

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1 hour ago, y*so*blu said:

I agree. I wrote that before Week 17. The Dallas game was the first time McKinney really grabbed my attention and consistently made plays. I'm excited to see how he'll develop next season. Thanks for the link BTW! Tainah is one of the best Giants content creators out there.

Of late I am daydreaming of Allen Robinson in a Giants uniform. Hearing he was unhappy in Chicago was no surprise. There's no receiver on the market I would want more than him.

No offense to Xavier McKinney, but as I said in April, Chase Claypool should have been the pick.  68 receptions, 873 yards and 9 TDs catching passes from old man Roethlisberger.  And we wouldn't be scrambling for a WR this offseason.

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13 hours ago, Gmen said:

No offense to Xavier McKinney, but as I said in April, Chase Claypool should have been the pick.  68 receptions, 873 yards and 9 TDs catching passes from old man Roethlisberger.  And we wouldn't be scrambling for a WR this offseason.

I disagree, Logan Ryan was not in the picture and Safety was a bigger need than Wideout when we drafted. Plus look at Dallas they needed secondary help, they decided to go with sexy the pick, Ceedee Lamb and their secondary suffered because of this. Last, there was the belief that Slayton could develop and be our #1.  

 

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15 hours ago, y*so*blu said:

 

Of late I am daydreaming of Allen Robinson in a Giants uniform. Hearing he was unhappy in Chicago was no surprise. There's no receiver on the market I would want more than him.

I believe I have always been on the Allen Robinson bandwagon.  If we do get a free agent wideout to be out #1 that frees us to get a pass rusher in the draft with our first pick. I do not believe we are going to be picking as low as #11 in draft again under Judge, this might be our last chance to draft a blue chip pass rusher. 

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2 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

I disagree, Logan Ryan was not in the picture and Safety was a bigger need than Wideout when we drafted. Plus look at Dallas they needed secondary help, they decided to go with sexy the pick, Ceedee Lamb and their secondary suffered because of this. Last, there was the belief that Slayton could develop and be our #1. 

Wasn't Logan Ryan a free agent in April too?  Or did he get cut in the summer?  I don't remember honestly.

Regardless, the defense played great without Xavier.  Meanwhile the passing offense struggled mightily this year.  Hindsight is 20/20.  But even back in April Gettleman was criticized for not drafting a WR in a very deep class.

As a side note, why do NFL teams continue letting these behemoth WRs fall into the second round?  DK Metcalf, AJ Brown, Chase Claypool all blew up the combine and went in the second round in the past two years.  This isn't rocket science.  Dude is 6'4, 230 and runs a 4.4.  At the minimum he's going to be nightmares to defend in the redzone and on vertical routes.

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14 minutes ago, Gmen said:

As a side note, why do NFL teams continue letting these behemoth WRs fall into the second round?  DK Metcalf, AJ Brown, Chase Claypool all blew up the combine and went in the second round in the past two years.  This isn't rocket science.  Dude is 6'4, 230 and runs a 4.4.  At the minimum he's going to be nightmares to defend in the redzone and on vertical routes.

It's going to happen again this year with Rondale Moore, Rashod Bateman, and others. It is also the main reason why I think we pass on a WR at 11. Surtain/Paye and Bateman/Moore is better than Waddle and a 2nd round defensive player. Look at the 2nd and 3rd round WRs the past two years and find me a bad one. Now find all the good-great ones. The hit rate is insane. We need to take advantage of that, even though Chase, Smith, and Waddle are extremely tempting prospects.

EDIT: I also want to add that Xavier Mckinney was definitely not a bad pick. He's going to be a very good player for us for a while. I don't think it is fair at all to ding a GM/FO for not picking a certain player when the player they did pick is good. Once he got rolling, so the last 3 games or so, he jumped off the tape. That culminated in the game we saw in week 17, where he was everywhere making plays. That's the norm for him, and it makes our secondary, arguably the most important unit on a football team in today's NFL, truly elite. Also, let's not act like Claypool would have had the stats he had had he been here in Garrett's offense. We had the lowest YAC in the entire NFL as an offense because Garrett's passing game was designed terribly. Claypool would have had probably 600 yards and a touchdown if he was here last year.

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4 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

It's going to happen again this year with Rondale Moore, Rashod Bateman, and others. It is also the main reason why I think we pass on a WR at 11. Surtain/Paye and Bateman/Moore is better than Waddle and a 2nd round defensive player. Look at the 2nd and 3rd round WRs the past two years and find me a bad one. Now find all the good-great ones. The hit rate is insane. We need to take advantage of that, even though Chase, Smith, and Waddle are extremely tempting prospects.

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I know he had a historic season, but I don't trust this body type in the NFL.  Whoever drafts him will obviously put him in the weight room, but I just don't know man.  I prefer Chase of those 3 guys, but I agree that we could wait until the second round.  But no later than that.

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Just now, Gmen said:

hi-res-032c2d83ba76f73a7cca084b72d344cb_

I know he had a historic season, but I don't trust this body type in the NFL.  Whoever drafts him will obviously put him in the weight room, but I just don't know man.  I prefer Chase of those 3 guys, but I agree that we could wait until the second round.  But no later than that.

I agree. For every Desean Jackson there is 5 John Ross's. And we need a bigger guy that can go up and make a contested catch. I also agree defense 1st and WR 2nd in the draft will have a higher chance of success. I think our pick at #11 comes down to WR, CB and EDGE. The problem is there may not be a premier EDGE there. The more I think about it the more I talk myself into one of the top CBs and just solidify that secondary for years to come.

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52 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

IAlso, let's not act like Claypool would have had the stats he had had he been here in Garrett's offense. We had the lowest YAC in the entire NFL as an offense because Garrett's passing game was designed terribly. Claypool would have had probably 600 yards and a touchdown if he was here last year.

 

 

I actually looked into this very recently trying to see what went wrong with the Giants passing offense.  The first graph shows the Giants were bottom 10 in the league in terms of vertical passing offense (notice Big Ben was no more aggressive than Jones).  The second graph shows that the Giants receivers didn't do Jones any favors with YAC (notice Big Ben got a lot more help from his receivers).

Part of the reason the Giants didn't push the ball downfield more was bad protection combined with Jones' fumble tendencies.  The second part of the reason is they really didn't have a deep threat.  Slayton was supposed to be that guy but he regressed and was streaky at best.  Tate and Shepard are supposed to be good at underneath passes + YAC, but clearly they didn't do their jobs well either. 

I think a big target that can run like Claypool would have allowed Garrett to open up the offense more.

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1 hour ago, Gmen said:

hi-res-032c2d83ba76f73a7cca084b72d344cb_

I know he had a historic season, but I don't trust this body type in the NFL.  Whoever drafts him will obviously put him in the weight room, but I just don't know man.  I prefer Chase of those 3 guys, but I agree that we could wait until the second round.  But no later than that.

Body type is a way overrated factor for WRs, IMO. It wouldn't concern me in the least, and I still think Smith is the best WR in the draft this year. But is he that much better than the 6 or 7 guys behind him? Honestly, no. And that's not a knock on Smith, rather it is a testament to how many good WRs there are coming out this year.

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