What is the thought process of you Season Tankers for this year? I'm truly dumbfounded...

[turtle28]

If Rivera wanted to tank he wouldn’t have thrown $ at Amari Cooper & Austin Hooper in hopes that they’d sign here.

[MKnight82]

48 minutes ago, offbyone said:

So you agree.  As I said he went through all the motions to tank starting in the offseason until about 2 weeks ago.  

The division is historically bad.  You can't just scoff at a guy for trying to win the division.  There's a lot a stake for the whole team financially.  He gets points from his owner for getting some playoff money.  His players likely have incentives in their contracts where they get more money.  Everyone always wants to act like an armchair GM but there's a lot of money involved in just sneaking into the playoffs.  

[offbyone]

15 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

The division is historically bad.  You can't just scoff at a guy for trying to win the division.  There's a lot a stake for the whole team financially.  He gets points from his owner for getting some playoff money.  His players likely have incentives in their contracts where they get more money.  Everyone always wants to act like an armchair GM but there's a lot of money involved in just sneaking into the playoffs.  

I think my post was probably not clear and I am being misunderstood.

I am all for winning.  I was for winning this offseason.  I was for winning the first 5 games.  The coach however has flip flopped on this and all I am trying to say is you can't scoff at some fans for wanting to Tank when the coach appeared on board with that program until recently.

[lavar703]

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

If Rivera wanted to tank he wouldn’t have thrown $ at Amari Cooper & Austin Hooper in hopes that they’d sign here.

Oh come on that’s silly and disingenuous. They backed out on Hooper when it got out of their price range. They offered Cooper crap guaranteed money. They let Flowers walk for god knows what reason? Our big offensive additions were Logan Thomas, JD McKissic, Peyton Barber, Dontrelle Inman and a wide receiver who ended up in jail. Rivera honestly has no clue whether he wants to tank or win or do whatever? He’s totally lost.  

[offbyone]

4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

If Rivera wanted to tank he wouldn’t have thrown $ at Amari Cooper & Austin Hooper in hopes that they’d sign here.

I have to agree with @lavar703 here.  We had a pile of money and neither used it to sign our own or improve this team significantly in free agency. 

Hindsight makes it look even more criminal.  When you look at the NFC east right now, if Rivera just signed one solid pass catcher and only one solid olineman and we are on top right now.  He was in sit back, burn the season and just evaluate mode even in the offseason.  

[Thaiphoon]

On 10/26/2020 at 6:13 PM, lavar703 said:

Because we’ve tried the patchwork crap for years. It doesn’t work and we’ve been lacking one thing for 35 years, a franchise QB. You can’t keep picking up scrap heap QBs and expecting to turn things around. Yes, I’d love to tank for Lawrence or draft Fields because winning a couple games in a throw away season means nothing to me. I want Super Bowls. That’s not remotely attainable without a franchise QB. Kyle Allen is going to play us out of position for one and that irritates me. 

This. The moment Haskins was benched, after we did next to nothing to put talent around him, it meant the staff was telling us that we don't have a QB. And you're not going to win without one. Drafting 1st or 2nd in 2021, gets you that QB. You can then build around him.

If Kyle plays us out of position, then we need to go the opposite route and build everywhere else but QB, first

[ripsean21]

On 10/26/2020 at 6:13 PM, MKnight82 said:

I kind of agree.  I think everyone here agrees that the biggest need we have is to build a winning culture.  You don't do that by losing.  Now don't get me wrong, I don't think we are a contender, and I don't think we'll make the playoffs either.  But I think there's a big difference between winning 6 games this year and 2 games.  6 games means progress and I think the guys will rally around this coaching staff.  2 wins will mean a lot of frustration.  I think there are some people who have already written off this coaching staff just because they benched Haskins.  I personally applaud them for moving on early from a situation that wasn't working. 

I also don't think completely bottoming out for like 2 wins is very plausible.  We've only had that bad of a record what like, 2 or 3 times in the history of the franchise?  5-6 wins sounds more reasonable.  That will let the coaching staff build some momentum after the disaster last year, and will still probably net us a top 10 pick.    

Knight it’s really nice to have you back here active!!! Completely agree

[ripsean21]

10 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

This. The moment Haskins was benched, after we did next to nothing to put talent around him, it meant the staff was telling us that we don't have a QB. And you're not going to win without one. Drafting 1st or 2nd in 2021, gets you that QB. You can then build around him.

If Kyle plays us out of position, then we need to go the opposite route and build everywhere else but QB, first

I think that’s what we would do. Yes getting that stud guy is great and I’d love it. But getting you LT or a Pitts or a Wade which honestly our DB’s look pretty solid especially since Fuller has returned. Quietly having a career year here!!! That’s my guy BTW love him personally one of my favorite CB scouts just love his game!!! That said there’s nothing wrong with building every other spot. No reaching there’s no reason to reach on a QB when we can fill a huge need with a really really good player that will improve the overall roster better.
 

Hopefully the team continues to build on execution. Dallas isn’t good but neither are the next 4 opponents. But after them we probably don’t win another game possibly and that’s okay if we’re showing that we can play up that would be huge if they find confidence and maybe even compete against a Pittsburgh but lose late and give them a run. Games like that could go a long way for this roster. But that’s far out. Week off to lick wounds keep practicing then we get NY again. So one game at a time handle that task first.

[Troublez]

I think this team needs to win - top 5 pick means absolutely nothing to me in securing a franchise QB. For every great QB selected #1/2 - there are several more that are complete busts (Jamarcus, Leaf, Winston, and etc.).

I am very hopeful that our Offense gels enough to allow our defense to reach its potential. If that's Kyle Allen in the Coaches eyes..... I am ok with it. Our defense needs to reach their potential for our team to attain a much needed IDENTITY - an attribute that is often overlooked. 
 

Let's try and win the division. Let's build some goodwill between players and coaches. Let's show what hard work is and measure its success by winning. 

[MKnight82]

55 minutes ago, Troublez said:

I think this team needs to win - top 5 pick means absolutely nothing to me in securing a franchise QB. For every great QB selected #1/2 - there are several more that are complete busts (Jamarcus, Leaf, Winston, and etc.).

I am very hopeful that our Offense gels enough to allow our defense to reach its potential. If that's Kyle Allen in the Coaches eyes..... I am ok with it. Our defense needs to reach their potential for our team to attain a much needed IDENTITY - an attribute that is often overlooked. 
 

Let's try and win the division. Let's build some goodwill between players and coaches. Let's show what hard work is and measure its success by winning. 

Ya this is where I'm at.  Let's build a culture.  

[aceinthehouse]

We can win this Division. If Allen continues to improve & can get us points early in the game?

It will allow our defense to do what they do best & use our strength. Which is pin our ears back & go after the QB.

I am concerned with Hopkins though. It's a bad time for him to have the yips.

He can't be missing FG's like he has.

Maybe this bye, will help him. Who knows.

[turtle28]

17 hours ago, lavar703 said:

Oh come on that’s silly and disingenuous. They backed out on Hooper when it got out of their price range. They offered Cooper crap guaranteed money. They let Flowers walk for god knows what reason? Our big offensive additions were Logan Thomas, JD McKissic, Peyton Barber, Dontrelle Inman and a wide receiver who ended up in jail. Rivera honestly has no clue whether he wants to tank or win or do whatever? He’s totally lost.  

You’re missing the point. The point is that they tried. If they wanted to entirely tank, they wouldn’t have even attempted to sign the best WR & TE on the market. Just because they didn’t meet the other teams final numbers doesn’t mean they weren’t interested in improving the two weakest positions on the team.

I mean they all can’t be Vinny, and from the looks of it right now they made the right decision in not overpaying for both guys. 
 

Now, I wish they had signed a better #2 candidate and a TE who could’ve beaten out Logan Thomas or drafted a TE as a few of those who were drafted are starting to flash, and that I’m not happy about. When they didn’t do that, I took their position as tanking after they had missed on Cooper and Hooper bc they didn’t sign a #2 WR or a better TE than Logan Thomas.

Of course tanking went out the window when Rivera said they were trying to win the division 3 weeks ago. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by turtle28

[TKellion]

2 hours ago, aceinthehouse said:

We can win this Division. If Allen continues to improve & can get us points early in the game?

It will allow our defense to do what they do best & use our strength. Which is pin our ears back & go after the QB.

I am concerned with Hopkins though. It's a bad time for him to have the yips.

He can't be missing FG's like he has.

Maybe this bye, will help him. Who knows.

Win the division,We havent shown we can beat a decent team let alone make a run,gimme a break stern

[PARROTHEAD]

3 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

Ya this is where I'm at.  Let's build a culture.  

Agree. Just the other day in Germany. A soccer team suffering through an all time historic match losing streak. They made a bunch of changes to the FO/Coaches and all just like us. Things started turning around, and this week they defeated one of the best teams in the world. A team thats roster is valued at 6x theirs.

The coach and president were discussing the biggest change was the culture. Bringing in a winning culture, workrate and such. Same players that had lost 21 strait against some bad teams. Up and have started to figure out how to win games.

We beat the Eagles right off the bat. I didnt see any way the team would go 0-15 after. Or even land top 3 to get one of these qbs anyway. Its best to develop this culture now, and push these guys to win. Drafting 5 or 15, it isnt going to make any difference if the the culture isnt changed. Though how much Ron can do on his own regarding that with zero help from the FO leaves me having my doubts. But he is trying to push this in the players.

Edited October 28, 2020 by PARROTHEAD

[e16bball]

9 hours ago, Troublez said:

I think this team needs to win - top 5 pick means absolutely nothing to me in securing a franchise QB. For every great QB selected #1/2 - there are several more that are complete busts (Jamarcus, Leaf, Winston, and etc.)

I think you’ve correctly identified that picking a QB high doesn’t mean you’ve got a keeper. But the very real flip side of that coin is that if you’re not picking your QB high, you probably don’t have a keeper. 

If we win the division, which is a very real possibility at this point, we will pick 19th after we get slaughtered by the best wild card team. That takes QB entirely off the table for me. Not remotely interested in investing meaningful assets (picks and, just as important, time) in QBs who fall past the first half of the 1st round, and our roster is not nearly in position to allow us to make a big trade-up. Which, from #19, would only be for a second tier prospect anyway.

I think the chances of us being able to land Lawrence or Fields are pretty much approaching zero at the moment anyway — so the drop out of the top 10 wouldn’t bother me as much as it may bother some. I’ve pretty much already resigned myself to skipping on a QB in the draft this year, so I’m at peace with whatever happens. I’m not a big fan of the guys currently slotting in from 6 to about 15 in the prospect rankings, so it’s not a huge loss for me (from a future value standpoint) if we make that big slide down the draft board.

But I will say this: I don’t think those extra 4 wins, to go from 2-14 to 6-10 and the crown of worst division winner ever, are actually worth losing the chance to draft Lawrence or Fields. I’m all for winning, and I’d love the culture here to change — but the chance to draft a extraordinary blue-chip talent at the QB position trumps a few extra wins in Rivera’s first year. That said, that’s not gonna happen. So if we’re gonna win 4-5 games, and miss out on the blue chippers anyway, might as well win 6-7 and make the playoffs.