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Jets looking to trade DT Quinnen WIlliams

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2 hours ago, xrade said:

I don’t want to get in the middle of this spirited discussion, but I can’t help myself. JA wanted to go. Yes, it would have been awesome to dump gase and keep JA, but there is not a team in the league that would open that can of worms.

JA did all he could to get traded and it succeeded, conversely, JD did a great job getting the haul for him.  I, along with many others, did not want to see this major distraction continue lest it create even more discord in the locker room. Ask yourself, how missed was JA in the Jets locker room?  I did not hear about too many coming to his defense 

Q is a different case. Q is playing well at a position that does not put up the gaudy stats and comparing him to Donald is a bit unfair.  Very few iDL have that kind of impact. Off the top of my head, Sapp and what’s his face from Minny 20 years ago are the only I can think of.  Q quietly does his job and so far, he is getting better. Add an EDGE with Q and JFM, and we may actually have a really strong front 4. You build off that not dismiss it.  I like the idea of having a front 4 that can get pressure without the need to blitz. Ask Brady when he played the Giants in the SB what he thinks. Pressure up the middle is very disturbing to a QB.  I understand several on this site don’t feel Q was worthy of the #3 pick. That may be true, I for one wanted Allen, but you can’t blame Q for that. In the end he is a good FB player on a team that lacks those. Keep Q and build around him. Blame Mac if  you must.

Mainly playing Devil's Advocate.  I brought up Jamal because someone said don't trade away talent for unknowns, which is exactly what we did with someone who is IMO 10x the player Q is.  Granted Q is young and coming into his own but at this point Jamal is what he is.

You just admitted iDL don't have that kind of impact.  Which is my argument if we can get a good pick and get an impact position like WR or EDGE that helps us out more.  Aside from LA with Donald, what teams are built up the middle?  The Jets missed badly trying to build up the middle, especially with how offenses and the league is evolving.  We need to worry more about generating edge pressure. 

Again, mainly playing Devil's Advocate, tempering people's expectations and not giving him up for free but only if the value is there so we can draft a more impactful position.  If JD is able to retool the offense next offseason through the draft and FA without trading Q then great.

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I guess we will agree to disagree. Draft picks are super hit or miss and when you have a good player who’s 22 you do not trade him. Think minkah Miami trade 

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10 hours ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

You just admitted iDL don't have that kind of impact

You must of missed the point where I said add an EDGE and the front 4 with Q and JFM could be really strong (impactful).  It is true a single iDL by himself has less impact on the outcome of a game but it is no less of a need.  I am sure 32 teams in the NFL would agree a good front 4 is a need.  I view the front 4 like the OL, a single great OL will not solve all the OL's woes. You need several.  Same with DL.

10 hours ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

if we can get a good pick and get an impact position like WR or EDGE that helps us out more.

That IF is the scary part.  Get rid of a known good player for an IF?

10 hours ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

The Jets missed badly trying to build up the middle, especially with how offenses and the league is evolving

True, they have.  Q is not one of them, at least as it appears right now.  Let the past go and pray JD is not Mac.  As for the up the middle thing, we obviously will continue to disagree that pressure up the gut is more disruptive than off the edge and that pressure is what makes QB's uneasy.  We see it every week with Sam, we saw it in the SB with Brady against the Giants.  Remember the Pats were undefeated that season and the Giants front 4 neutralized him.  And let us not forget, great EDGE rushers are partially the talent of the player as well as the remaining front 3 or 4.  Put an great EDGE on a team with a weak iDL and they can be negated by simple double teams.  I make it sound simple, but the theory is sound.  Hence my reason for wanting a good EDGE to team with Q and JFM.

10 hours ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

Aside from LA with Donald, what teams are built up the middle?

Off the top of my head, Pitt, TB, SF, Balt. Cle., Ind., NO,  And keep in mind the front 4 acts as a unit.  DE-DT-DT-DE.  In a 34, DE-NT-DT-EDGE.  If you have a weak DT or NT, teams would need to rely on the ILB's to stop the inside runs opening the possibility for TE and slot WR to be wide open in the middle of the field which is typically the easiest completion for a QB to make.  A weak DL interior also allows the QB to stay in the pocket to go through his progressions.  I make it sound like the front 4 is the be-all, end-all for a good FB team. In truth, a good front 4 is only one part of a good defensive unit.  Good DB's and OLB are still a necessity.  If a team can field a competent front 4, ILB, OLB and DB, they will limit those high powered O's.  Now I am certainly not blind to the fact that the NFL wants more scoring and has made it easier for the O to succeed.  But to win FB games, that O output must be minimized.  I said a while back it would be great to have an O that score 30+ point a game, but if the D is giving up 35+ a game, it is still a loss.  Ask Dallas.

10 hours ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

If JD is able to retool the offense next offseason through the draft and FA without trading Q then great.

And here is the crux of our discussion.  I believe JD can retool the O without getting rid of Q.  Add a WR or two or three, a FA TE, and a FA RB (Mack, Gurley, etc.) at least iOL in FA maybe draft another on day 2 or 3 along with Lawrence and we will be on our way.  This is why I loved Bobby's Mock.  It addressed all of this except for FA TE, and it is reasonable with the cap space we have and the current draft picks we have.  Q can be part of that rebuild.  Getting rid of him for an unknown late round 1st is more risky than just keeping him.

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