The Pats QB situation

[m haynes]

Great points on the QB. 

I will add.

Don't be surprised to see the teams that have a QBs get rid of them for Cap Reasons. The Cap is a big issue next year. You get rid of one big ticket and get a young star with low cap numbers.  Some teams might  cut/trade  a QB and trade up that surprises everyone.

Lastly,  Dallas is nuts if they don't draft a QB.  Prescott 100 million or Zach Wilson 50 cents on the dollars. That's a easy sell to the fan base.

IMO Prescott is a good QB not great. He became a HOF-er  (legend)  player after his injury and seeing Dalton play !!!! 👀

Also add the Giants to surprise QB pick

Don't be shocked if you see 5 QBs go , by the 7th pick in the draft

Edited December 17, 2020 by m haynes

[Crimmage]

That's the wild card.. a run on QB.. if BB feels that way we could see him go HARD after a trade for a QB like Stafford. 

Stafford actually makes sense too the more I think of it.. he's 33 and can probably play another ~5-6 years. Who else do we expect to be around for 5-6 years? BB ... that would eliminate his need to coach up a QB and he can just keep drafting kids behind him to develop and let the next coach worry about the QB position ( assuming someone doesn't get drafted who takes the job). 

[Hunter2_1]

I'd be good with Stafford. He isn't clutch but he can really throw it, and if we get him some weapons, he would make this offense productive as well, and with an effective run game, we would win plenty of games.

But yeah, if you look at Matt's 4th Q comeback wins, they're ALL against not so good teams, save for maybe a couple.

 

He's much better than Cam...

[m haynes]

Here's a good read on Lance. Good and bad.

Quote

This primitive offense creates even more pause with an already muddy situation because it’s nearly impossible to project his ability to process a complete picture.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/quarterback-charting-competition-level-clouds-trey-lance-potential/

Love this line.

Quote

. He’s an immensely talented athlete and passer playing future accountants, radio personalities, and engineers.

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by m haynes

[Crimmage]

Speaking of low level competition.. I think we can relate this back to Dugger a bit. 

The Senior Bowl is what got Dugger drafted in the second round, teams like the Patriots saw him against better competition and believed he could translate to the next level. Of course because he is a QB he's going to get over drafted, even with the unknowns and get taken in the 1st round. 

Given that Lance isn't a Senior.. and we don't even have a Senior Bowl this year .. it's much harder to see how he translates ( especially given that he only played one game this year). I don't think he has any chance of being #3 QB .. if we don't have a combine he may not even be 4... BUT BB likes to  show that he is the smartest guy in the room so it wouldn't surprise me if he wanted to take the most raw potential QB in the draft, coach him up for 2 years under a veteran QB and remind everyone that he's the best coach of all time. Seems like something a cocky coach would want to do to show everyone he made Brady not the other way around. Just spit balling but it's possible.. 

 

He could be Taysom Hill for his first 2 seasons then take over.. but if you throw this kid into the fire ( BB never does this with rookies) .. I highly doubt he reaches his potential but I'll say that I think New England is one of the only spots in the league where he could have a chance to be special.. because BB won't play him unless he's totally ready ( which given that this kid seems to be a big time competitor he'd work incredibly hard to get there.. if you hand it to him, I dont think he gets there with a mediocre coach)

Edited December 17, 2020 by Crimmage

[m haynes]

1 hour ago, Crimmage said:

Speaking of low level competition.. I think we can relate this back to Dugger a bit. 

The Senior Bowl is what got Dugger drafted in the second round, teams like the Patriots saw him against better competition and believed he could translate to the next level. Of course because he is a QB he's going to get over drafted, even with the unknowns and get taken in the 1st round. 

Given that Lance isn't a Senior.. and we don't even have a Senior Bowl this year .. it's much harder to see how he translates ( especially given that he only played one game this year). I don't think he has any chance of being #3 QB .. if we don't have a combine he may not even be 4... BUT BB likes to  show that he is the smartest guy in the room so it wouldn't surprise me if he wanted to take the most raw potential QB in the draft, coach him up for 2 years under a veteran QB and remind everyone that he's the best coach of all time. Seems like something a cocky coach would want to do to show everyone he made Brady not the other way around. Just spit balling but it's possible.. 

 

He could be Taysom Hill for his first 2 seasons then take over.. but if you throw this kid into the fire ( BB never does this with rookies) .. I highly doubt he reaches his potential but I'll say that I think New England is one of the only spots in the league where he could have a chance to be special.. because BB won't play him unless he's totally ready ( which given that this kid seems to be a big time competitor he'd work incredibly hard to get there.. if you hand it to him, I dont think he gets there with a mediocre coach)

The only thing I would say, there's a huge gap difference between the mental skills of a QB and a safety. I never thought of the TH angle however I would not use the 15th pick. Now if our team was loaded with talent I could see the gamble in theory but still wouldn't so it.

I rather go with Sam Ehlinger. Less risk same TH results.

Another thought,  15th pick stinks to low for a 1st tier QB, to high for 2nd tier QB Frustrating as all get up. Trask and Jones, I keep leaning to Jones, but it hard no to like Trask as well. What I hate about Trask is he a Florida Gator. Kryptonite the Pats.

 

[Crimmage]

I would never draft him to be a permanent TH, if BB wanted that I think he would have done it this season with Stidham and Cam. I mention that primarily because I think Lance will require 1-2 years of development before he can be a full time starter or he will fail at the next level. Having him with a TH like package his rookie season along with a bridge QB could be a dynamic which keeps teams off guard and helps them get the offense back to competent levels until he is ready to take over. Mahomes is great now.. but lots of scouts had concerns about him coming out of college, if he wasn't drafted by a good team with good coach and got a full year to learn I don't think he would be the same player today ( especially without all the weapons he has, not to take anything away from him). 

I don't like that he mainly only runs to one side (right) .. i dont like that he primarily runs or throws longer passes .. his release isn't Cam slow but it's not Wilson fast either which isn't ideal to me .. but I think his best chance to succeed at the next level would be to get drafted by a team which won't make him start right away. I trust that this coaching stuff could put him in a position to succeed. We also have to take into account that he hasn't been getting top tier coaching either.. so some of the issues we see with him now could have been much better if he went to say Alabama. It is concerning that no top tier college team felt he could be a QB though... and i'm sure BB is going to talk to all his college coach buddies to find out why nobody would give him a chance. 

I think San Francisco ( with Jimmy for 1 more year), Tampa Bay would be smart to grab a QB ( but i dont trust Leftwich to develop one), Pittsburgh and New England are his most likely options for success. Any other team won't be able to win without him and fans will pressure the team to put him in before he is ready. For all we know BB could still love Stidham but think he's not ready yet, he's so stubborn that even if he has no option he's not going to start a guy unless he think he is ready.. just look at pretty much every rookie the last decade who played well their second season who probably would have been playing year 1 on most other teams. 

 

Mac Jones ceiling is Alex Smith I think.. BB may like that, he's not going to make major mistakes.. but he's never going to carry you to a championship.. you'll need a hell of a team around him and we've got no weapons to help him look good. If BB want's someone who can run he def won't go for Jones either. 

Trask also seems boom or bust to me .. his throwing motion isn't as fast as I would like and he looks kind of mechanical which scares me. I think he would need to sit for at least a year just as much as Lance. The Florida factor is also scary haha

 

If BB doesnt get his guy I dont want any of these top players.. I'd much rather him trade back and grab someone he believes in than reach for a QB. Id even be happy with him taking Pitts if he falls in love with him.. we at least know he's going to make an impact. I would really like to know more about what Lance has been doing all year.. has he been working with NFL caliber trainers? What kind of training is he doing? He isn't getting live action but having an entire year to work on his mechanics, training regiment, etc. could mean he is further along than we think.. I would just hope that he has good people around him setting him up for success

[m haynes]

33 minutes ago, Crimmage said:

I would never draft him to be a permanent TH, if BB wanted that I think he would have done it this season with Stidham and Cam. I mention that primarily because I think Lance will require 1-2 years of development before he can be a full time starter or he will fail at the next level. Having him with a TH like package his rookie season along with a bridge QB could be a dynamic which keeps teams off guard and helps them get the offense back to competent levels until he is ready to take over. Mahomes is great now.. but lots of scouts had concerns about him coming out of college, if he wasn't drafted by a good team with good coach and got a full year to learn I don't think he would be the same player today ( especially without all the weapons he has, not to take anything away from him). 

I don't like that he mainly only runs to one side (right) .. i dont like that he primarily runs or throws longer passes .. his release isn't Cam slow but it's not Wilson fast either which isn't ideal to me .. but I think his best chance to succeed at the next level would be to get drafted by a team which won't make him start right away. I trust that this coaching stuff could put him in a position to succeed. We also have to take into account that he hasn't been getting top tier coaching either.. so some of the issues we see with him now could have been much better if he went to say Alabama. It is concerning that no top tier college team felt he could be a QB though... and i'm sure BB is going to talk to all his college coach buddies to find out why nobody would give him a chance. 

I think San Francisco ( with Jimmy for 1 more year), Tampa Bay would be smart to grab a QB ( but i dont trust Leftwich to develop one), Pittsburgh and New England are his most likely options for success. Any other team won't be able to win without him and fans will pressure the team to put him in before he is ready. For all we know BB could still love Stidham but think he's not ready yet, he's so stubborn that even if he has no option he's not going to start a guy unless he think he is ready.. just look at pretty much every rookie the last decade who played well their second season who probably would have been playing year 1 on most other teams. 

 

Mac Jones ceiling is Alex Smith I think.. BB may like that, he's not going to make major mistakes.. but he's never going to carry you to a championship.. you'll need a hell of a team around him and we've got no weapons to help him look good. If BB want's someone who can run he def won't go for Jones either. 

Trask also seems boom or bust to me .. his throwing motion isn't as fast as I would like and he looks kind of mechanical which scares me. I think he would need to sit for at least a year just as much as Lance. The Florida factor is also scary haha

 

If BB doesnt get his guy I dont want any of these top players.. I'd much rather him trade back and grab someone he believes in than reach for a QB. Id even be happy with him taking Pitts if he falls in love with him.. we at least know he's going to make an impact. I would really like to know more about what Lance has been doing all year.. has he been working with NFL caliber trainers? What kind of training is he doing? He isn't getting live action but having an entire year to work on his mechanics, training regiment, etc. could mean he is further along than we think.. I would just hope that he has good people around him setting him up for success

Know what I was thinking when I read your post. Jalen Hurst.  I was watching a Alabama game a JH was at QB. The announcer started talking about him gong to the NFL as a QB. I cracked up laughing.  Jalen Hurst a NFL QB my butt. Maybe he's another Hurst.

Some team will take a chance.  I can't wait to see where end up being picked.  With the 1st pick Jets take Tray Lance!!! It's the Jets.

Edited December 18, 2020 by m haynes

[DoleINGout]

Justin Herbert reminds me of Tom Brady. Herbert is more talented and athletic too. Give Herbert Belichick and maybe he plays close to two decades and is called a GOAT. Needs to prove a lot to live up to how consistent and clutch Brady was.

[Apparition]

Can't help but wonder how Mariota would fare in this offense. 

[Hunter2_1]

11 hours ago, m haynes said:

Here's a good read on Lance. Good and bad.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/quarterback-charting-competition-level-clouds-trey-lance-potential/

Love this line.

 

Hahah! The shade...

 

He's this year's 'wonder if NFL team know what they know and he drops wellll below mock positions'. Wonder if second round....

 

 

[Hunter2_1]

7 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

Justin Herbert reminds me of Tom Brady. Herbert is more talented and athletic too. Give Herbert Belichick and maybe he plays close to two decades and is called a GOAT. Needs to prove a lot to live up to how consistent and clutch Brady was.

I see some similarities too. I think Justin is up against it more though due to poor coaching and having this generation's elite team in the Div. He does have better weapons than Tommy boy did though this early in career.

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Hunter2_1

[DoleINGout]

8 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Hahah! The shade...

 

He's this year's 'wonder if NFL team know what they know and he drops wellll below mock positions'. Wonder if second round....

 

 

The thing seemingly missed here by everyone is that Belichick just traded up in the 2020 second round to get Kyle Dugger who came from a division II school. So snarky one-liners of competition Trey Lance has faced applies not here.

[Crimmage]

4 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

The thing seemingly missed here by everyone is that Belichick just traded up in the 2020 second round to get Kyle Dugger who came from a division II school. So snarky one-liners of competition Trey Lance has faced applies not here.

The difference with Dugger was that based on if I recall an interview with Caserio, he was drafted because of his performance at the Senior Bowl. Due to that I think it removed all worries of competition for them because they saw him perform very well there. 

I think for Lance the combine ( hopefully we have one) and his interviews will be what determines if they are worried about the competition or not. How well he understands the game.. is he obsessed with being an NFL QB or not to do everything necessary to make it happen, teams are going to want to know what he has been doing to prepare for the draft the last year+. 

[DoleINGout]

53 minutes ago, Crimmage said:

The difference with Dugger was that based on if I recall an interview with Caserio, he was drafted because of his performance at the Senior Bowl. Due to that I think it removed all worries of competition for them because they saw him perform very well there. 

I think for Lance the combine ( hopefully we have one) and his interviews will be what determines if they are worried about the competition or not. How well he understands the game.. is he obsessed with being an NFL QB or not to do everything necessary to make it happen, teams are going to want to know what he has been doing to prepare for the draft the last year+. 

Which is a fine distinction to make, however that was not the point of the dig in the article.