The Pats QB situation

[LaFellSBXLIXMVP]

#6 might as well throw to himself at this point. If you draft Jones better bring #6 with him. Ohio's D is terrible and while they can't follow DeVonte's shadow and that's bad enough the coaching staff doesn't intend to do anything about it.

But I'll stop beating this drum. Go watch it for entertainment purposes.

[biggie.]

Mac Jones is the Next Big Thing.

[m haynes]

Well  My view is a little different.

1. Pre snap read very impressive. Take what the defense gives him.  Check down all day is just fine with me.

2.  Patience in the pocket

3.  Very smart know where his receivers are on the field.

5. Deadly accurate at all levels of the field.

Concerns.

1. Lateral movement, hops to move left or right in the pocket, however step up well.

Lastly,  when did check downs become a bad thing. The Patriots have made a living do just that. Kevin Faulk, James White and Vereen made a career out of doing just that!

Matter of fact a check down was a major reason why we won our 1st SB.  JR Remond says hello!

Forgot  Jones fumble was a complete fluke. He's noted for not turning the ball over,. 

IMO  I have absolutely have no problem with Jones at 15.

[Apparition]

I don't think Jones is worth pick 15. I'd feel a lot better about a trade into the mid-20s for extra picks and then taking him. 

If you take Jones at 15, you damn well better hit on a WR or TE with your next pick, because with this current receiving corps he's set up to fail. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Starless

[m haynes]

49 minutes ago, Starless said:

I don't think Jones is worth pick 15. I'd feel a lot better about a trade into the mid-20s for extra picks and then taking him. 

If you take Jones at 15, you damn well better hit on a WR or TE with your next pick, because with this current receiving corps he's set up to fail. 

I would rather over draft him at 15 even if he's a mid 20 grade. You have to many teams looking for a QB.

I see Washington at 19, Bears 20, Colts 21, Jets 23  (Didn't take one at 2), Pittsburgh 24 all looking for a QB.

[ToonPatriot]

Out of interest, to everyone on here right now - Mac Jones or Jimmy G?

Rookie contract vs whatever we'd pay Jimmy ($20m?)

Unknown vs history of injuries

It's surely an interesting debate from QB play to overall team building etc

[1ForTheThumb]

21 hours ago, ToonPatriot said:

I think i'd rather be the team rolling the dice trying to get the next QBoTF than jumping from vet to vet who are being let go by teams also wanting to roll said dice.

Exactly. Being stuck in the middle is not where you want to be in the NFL.

~50/50 odds at success at finding a QB in the first round. The likely-hood of finding a mid-to-late round gem is slim to none.

Fire away until we get our guy.

[DoleINGout]

5 hours ago, ToonPatriot said:

Out of interest, to everyone on here right now - Mac Jones or Jimmy G?

Rookie contract vs whatever we'd pay Jimmy ($20m?)

Unknown vs history of injuries

It's surely an interesting debate from QB play to overall team building etc

Mac Jones and I don't have to think twice about it. Jimmy G has always been a terribly overrated investment.

[ToonPatriot]

45 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Mac Jones and I don't have to think twice about it. Jimmy G has always been a terribly overrated investment.

I agree. Unfortunately I don't think Bill will.

[m haynes]

Question off topic. Did the screen change. My screen is now white?

[Crimmage]

43 minutes ago, m haynes said:

Question off topic. Did the screen change. My screen is now white?

Yes, i believe they did an update because of all the crashing errors people were getting.. and part of the update was a theme change. They will likely make changes to it again in the near future to be more similar to what it was previously. 

With regards to Jones.. for those who like him, how do you compare him to Tua? 

Tua is a much higher rated prospect and I really haven't been a huge fan of him in the NFL ( and he is more mobile than Jones while being just as accurate). Are you just getting a worse version of Tua in Jones ? Is that worth a top 15 pick? 

It's really hard to say.. BB may like the reliability even if he lacks the mobility.. but seeing Cams running ability and imagining being able to change the offense to be a threat for passing and running could make him want to go towards a more boom or bust prospect.. 

 

Also side note.. don't the 49ers draft before the Patriots? If the league believes Jones can play and doesn't need mobility to be successful.. why wouldn't the 49ers jump at drafting him? 

• Deebo
• Aiyuk
• Kittle

They have so much receiving talent on top of an always good running game that he could hop in day 1 and just throw short passes and let the YAC rip teams apart. I'm not a huge Jones fan but he mays sooo much sense for the 49ers compared to the Pats with 0 weapons who may need a more mobile QB who can bail them out when the receivers can't get open

Edited January 12, 2021 by Crimmage

[DoleINGout]

43 minutes ago, Crimmage said:

reliability

for this reason, all else being equal, Mac>Tua (for Bill/Pats)

It would hope that if they don't get Jaylen Waddle or one of Jones or Lance, that they trade for Jalen Hurts who they should have taken in the first last year.

[m haynes]

1 hour ago, Crimmage said:

Tua is a much higher rated prospect and I really haven't been a huge fan of him in the NFL ( and he is more mobile than Jones while being just as accurate). Are you just getting a worse version of Tua in Jones ? Is that worth a top 15 pick? 

I never bought in to the Tua hype.  I didn't like him in the draft. I thought he would be exactly what we are seeing now.  He reminded me  Matt Leinart. A great college QB with a no arm strength. He can't throw without a loop in his pass. He has no zip on his ball to the outside. It amazes me how many "sheeps" there are, playing GM in the NFL.  The Mel Kipers of the world had Zach Wilson 2/3 RD talent just a couple of month ago, now they have him going in the top 5. I have been saying that before they knew who he was. Look at what they think of Lance. They are sheeps!

1 hour ago, Crimmage said:

Cams running ability and imagining being able to change the offense to be a threat for passing and running

They still can however they leave the running to the backs. I just see Jones as a great fit for this offense. Play action passes, no mistakes, takes what is there. Understands the game and can make the passes at all levels of the field. I also seem him with our young OL they give him time and he will pick you apart with his throws and pin point accuracy. I don't get the excuse that he playing with stars. He still had to make the right decision and get them the ball. I see the comments, WR were wide open, agree to a point, but there were also perfect passes as well, especially (Pats offense) the slants over the middle. The kid played in the National title game and put up what 36/42, 464 yard and 5 TD. I don't care, that's just damn impressive. Most of the great QBs in college, mostly all played with great talent, I look (Tua) beyond that. They look at Lance and say the exact opposite. Lance play against scrubs and he the second coming. I just don't get it .

 

 

 

[m haynes]

4 minutes ago, m haynes said:

I never bought in to the Tua hype.  I didn't like him in the draft. I thought he would be exactly what we are seeing now.  He reminded me  Matt Leinart. A great college QB with a no arm strength. He can't throw without a loop in his pass. He has no zip on his ball to the outside. It amazes me how many "sheeps" there are, playing GM in the NFL.  The Mel Kipers of the world had Zach Wilson 2/3 RD talent just a couple of month ago, now they have him going in the top 5. I have been saying that before they knew who he was. Look at what they think of Lance. They are sheeps!

They still can however they leave the running to the backs. I just see Jones as a great fit for this offense. Play action passes, no mistakes, takes what is there. Understands the game and can make the passes at all levels of the field. I also seem him with our young OL they give him time and he will pick you apart with his throws and pin point accuracy. I don't get the excuse that he playing with stars. He still had to make the right decision and get them the ball. I see the comments, WR were wide open, agree to a point, but there were also perfect passes as well, especially (Pats offense) the slants over the middle. The kid played in the National title game and put up what 36/42, 464 yard and 5 TD. I don't care, that's just damn impressive. Most of the great QBs in college, mostly all played with great talent, I look (Tua) beyond that. They look at Lance and say the exact opposite. Lance play against scrubs and he the second coming. I just don't get it .

 

 

 

Forgot  to add, Jones has everything but legs!😁 Hey no edit button. OH just found it up top. Sorry

Edited January 12, 2021 by m haynes

[Crimmage]

Saban has been and will continue to be the determining factor. If Saban tells BB that he is a franchise guy in the making then BB will believe him. 

I wouldn't draft him at 15 ( we already know who I would get) .. I would rather have Smith/Waddle/Pitts/trade down at 15 given all of our other needs.. but if BB does take Jones there I'd obviously understand the situation. The part which I won't forgive is if you don't surround this kid with talent.. if you have Jones at 15 you need to cater this entire offense around his talents and put him in a position to succeed. 

The guys accurate, great with check downs,etc. Being at Alabama he really didn't get pressured as much as many other QBs.. I honestly wish we could have seen him flustered more to get an idea of how he handled it. I don't think he is a franchise guy that can carry you to a win, he's going to need help surrounding him.. but if you put a great offense around him he can probably be pretty good. If you feel you can win a super bowl with maybe the #15 QB in the league.. sure, draft him. He doesn't have the elite talent to be a top 10 QB based on what I've seen.

If you draft him you need to have a major offensive load up year. I'd honestly say invest 100% into the offense, push Jones' development and worry about defense more next season. 

• Make sure OL solidified, even if it means a higher pick ( Thuney / Andrew / Cannon spots potentially open) .. the only spot I worry about is RT for next year because Herron likely isn't ready for that kind of responsibility 
• RB i'm pretty confident if people stay healthy .. will help him a lot.. but who is the 3rd down receiving back? this offense needs that and he did lots of rb passes in college
• Safety net pass catchers: Meyers is great at recognizing holes in the zone .. a reliable TE would help here a lot too, hopefully Asiasi progresses or BB gets his dream in Hunter Henry ( and he doesn't get hurt) 
• YAC: Those short passes need to turn into something.. they need someone who can take a WR screen to the house <- find your Deebo Samuel in free agency / draft
• Deep Threat: "Stretch the field" .. Henry Ruggs immediately changed the Raiders offense.. you need someone who can have that seem impact on this team to keep defenses honest
   

Funny how 4 months ago we were mocking Jones in the 2nd with a 1st round elite WR to pair with him.. and now that's all but a pipe dream given how many teams are in need of a QB this season. This is the same offseason I would hope for if we got Minshew so I've thought about it a lot... you've got some amazing options in free agency which should be relatively cheap.