Soko Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 15 minutes ago, jofos said: Is it worth it to trade up for the 4th or 5th best player at their position? It doesn’t matter. If you believe the player is a good player (in this case, a quality QB) then get them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jofos Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 13 minutes ago, Deadpulse said: flawed argument. Russel Wilson was the 6th best player at his position in 2012. If you think this is the guy, you go after where you think he will go. first of all not making an argument. Wilson was considered the 6th best and was the 5th QB taken (3rd round 75th) No one trade up. I know that if you believe he is your guy you pick him, but if you believe he his the 5th best in the draft class? Let's assume that the Patriots QB board looks something like this 1. Lawrence 2. Wilson 3. Fields 4. Lance 5. Jones 6.Mills and they go in that order. Is it then worth giving up picks 15, 120, and 177 this year and 2022's first round pick or is it better to draft someone you think is best in class at their position and a better prospect than all QBs other than the top three? (the QB rankings are random and do not reflect my opinion or and other rankings) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 3 hours ago, m haynes said: To trade up for Lance is nuts. What kind of nuts are we talking about here? I think Lance is worth a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 2 hours ago, DoleINGout said: What kind of nuts are we talking about here? I think Lance is worth a shot. I really, really like Lance. Don't get me wrong, as a GM I don't know if I'd have the guts to make a huge move to go get him, but I totally get it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m haynes Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, DoleINGout said: worth a shot. Why. Can you say anything other than he has a strong arm and can run. What else has he shown you that he can compete in the NFL and against complex defenses. You willing to give up 2/3 1st RD picks and other picks as well. That's like you and me betting our house! I know I would never take that bet. I love Jones but I wouldn't bet my house to get him. There are only two QBs I would risk my house on, that's Lawrence and Wilson. What can Lance do or showed that makes him so much better than Fields and Mond. Two guys that have a body of work against top talent not future Salesman. Also did you bet your house on Jordan Love!!! If so what color did the new owner paint the Living Room! Edited April 18, 2021 by m haynes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m haynes Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 Sorry forgot something. I think Wilson is a better QB than Lawrence however I would take Lawrence 1st. Why, because I don't want to bet my house on Wilson staying healthy. Lawrence is that smart bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 4 hours ago, jofos said: but if you believe he his the 5th best in the draft class? 4 hours ago, jofos said: If you think this is the guy, you go after where you think he will go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 1 hour ago, m haynes said: Can you say anything other than he has a strong arm and can run. Good head on his shoulders, has competed in high stakes games, and led a team that has had back-to-back NFL-drafted QB's in Wentz and Easton Stick. Seems to go through his progressions; not just a first read or run guy. Operates within the scheme/system at NDSU and excels as a decision maker. Athletically gifted, solid physical build plus no injury history to help project his level of durability, a talented thrower already honing in on natural accuracy with no clunky mechanics or hitches in form. "-Trey Lance was recruited as a top prospect by Division I schools at positions such as safety, outside linebacker, and receiver despite playing QB in high school. -Lance has a certain "prove the world wrong" mindset that has carried over from the recruiting process after his favorite team, (the Minnesota Golden Gophers), offered no scholarship for him to play QB." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A W Niloc Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 6 hours ago, jofos said: Is it worth it to trade up for the 4th or 5th best player at their position? First, it depends on the position. If it is one where you need three starters (e.g. WR or CB) the answer is "yes". You seem to mean QB. Do you mean historically, in which case the answer is "no" (because the 4th player taken at any position usually performs about 48th in the NFL), or a QB this year, in which case the answer is more likely "yes". I can well imagine Denver trading up for QB4 Justin Fields at #4 but Belichick probably won't be selling the farm for him (as he would were it Mac Jones). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, m haynes said: Why. Can you say anything other than he has a strong arm and can run. What else has he shown you that he can compete in the NFL and against complex defenses. He has spent more time under center than all the others, he calls the protections (even Lawrence doesn't), he works in an offense that uses more motion pre-snap than all the other QBs in that class. I'm not saying he's the best or that I even want him (I don't). But he is more than just a strong arm and a runner. He's worked in a pro style offense more than any of the others. "Wentz, Stick and Lance all ran a Bison offensive scheme that bore similarities to a traditional NFL system, and although Wentz and Stick played for former NDSU coach Chris Klieman (now the head man at Kansas State), that hasn't changed under Entz. According to NDSU quarterbacks coach Randy Hedberg, Lance processed pre-snap looks from the defense remarkably well for a first-year starter, and shares credit with an offensive line that allowed just 13 sacks in 16 games. "In our system, the quarterback sets the protection on almost every play, which is a little unusual," Hedberg said. "Our offensive line did a great job, but so did Trey with knowing what protections to call. That helped Carson and Easton transition to the NFL, and it will help Trey." I still don't think he's compatible though because he's the least accurate out of all of them Edited April 19, 2021 by Hunter2_1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m haynes Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, DoleINGout said: competed in high stakes games Against who? 10 hours ago, DoleINGout said: Seems to go through his progressions; not just a first read or run guy. Operates within the scheme/system at NDSU and excels as a decision maker. Misleading. His offense is a pre-snap read to set up the prime target and he is facing zone defenses 99% of the time. 3 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said: According to NDSU quarterbacks coach Randy Hedberg, I could care less what he says about HIS QB. That goes to Bama Saban as well. 3 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said: He's worked in a pro style offense more than any of the others. That the 1st time I heard this and it comes from his coach!!!! Getting back to a coach giving his advice on one of his players. This is IMO reason why BB fails on certain picks! "Hey Herb (Urban Meyer) How's so and so FLA Gator player?" " Bill, this kid is assume no one better!!!!!!" The Pats select Jermaine Cunningham out of FLA!!!!! Bengals now on the board, they select FLA Carlos Dunbar!!! Edited April 19, 2021 by m haynes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ForTheThumb Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 On 4/10/2021 at 3:02 PM, Forge said: Mainly because it's a lot of opinion based speculation. Nobody knows anything. Breer and Ian have both said the niners haven't even told the team / staff yet. The only two people that know are Lynch and shanny, and maybe peters. This hasn't been a leaking organization since lynch arrived and it was actually a condition of his taking a job. Dan patricks sources for Mac being a lock were two people from other qb needy teams. Matt miller's was a former niner employee MMs is from three external scouts, chris simms' opinion, and Mike tannenbaums opinion. How in the world do they know? It's been a lot of stuff like that. It's like everyone just decided that Mac was the guy based on his similarity to previous Kyle QBs and the fact that they may have been interested in him at 12. You're already starting to see media peel back from the narrative. Robert mays was first. Tony Pauline two days ago said to hold off on the Mac Jones talk. Ian pulled back yesterday saying that Kyle said they'd consider him, but he didn't know if they would actually do it. Mike silver said that he's got a contingent that believes it's fields. Peter King and albert breer have been non committal. It's all just your typical fluff stuff. I wouldn't give much credence to anything until there's about a week to go, then I'd pay attention to breer, king and Ian, as they have the best pulse of the niners during this regime. Jones could be the pick, but the reports are largely crap I heard a clip from Schefter that sounded like he was pretty sure Mac was going to be the pick. Him and DJ are pretty reputable sources; hard to find two reporters more tied in those two. Maybe they've backtracked on those statements recently (I haven't been that tied in the last week or so because I was on vacation). Point being, I feel like Jones is being dismissed as a large possibility of being the pick because the "draft community" own evaluation of him. None of that matters at the end of the day. I'm not dismissing reports from Schefty and Daniel Jeremiah as crap. You can't dismiss those reports and then call CrapSheet a reputable source lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ForTheThumb Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 15 hours ago, DoleINGout said: What kind of nuts are we talking about here? I think Lance is worth a shot. Agreed. Potential is there for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 3 hours ago, m haynes said: Against who? Pressure is pressure. Deal with it best you can and review the results. 3 hours ago, m haynes said: Misleading. His offense is a pre-snap read to set up the prime target and he is facing zone defenses 99% of the time. It seems like he has dropped back plenty and been asked to scan the field regularly. He is left to make decisions from what I can tell and deliver in the form of a pass or run, which statistically he did very efficiently. The "pro style" offense argument is changing too with the implementation of "college offenses" in the NFL. Rookies have never been more utilized especially at QB early in their career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 3 hours ago, m haynes said: Against who? Misleading. His offense is a pre-snap read to set up the prime target and he is facing zone defenses 99% of the time. I could care less what he says about HIS QB. That goes to Bama Saban as well. That the 1st time I heard this and it comes from his coach!!!! Of course, but there is the option to watch the footage. I haven't done a close enough recon on him tbh, but I did notice he was under C a lot and there was motion etc. It's quite a mature thing for a college QB to be working with that I think. As I said though - if you're inaccurate, it matters ****... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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