Week 8 Gameday Thread: Ravens vs. Steelers

[DontTazeMeBro]

The passing game has been bad because before today Jackson hasn’t been running as much. We have Jackson running. Everything else is opened up by the threat of Jackson running.

[diamondbull424]

25 minutes ago, Danand said:

I think every fan outside of our fanbases enjoyed the game. 

Losing Stanley hurt, but you guys lost some guys as well. The feeling right now is there was a lof of penalties going the Steelers way, but in a game where Lamar throws 2 interceptions and fumbles within field goal range, we can mostly point towards our own guys not doing what was needed to do/Steelers defense and offense capitalizing and being clutch.

That’s not really the feeling. Most Ravens fans seem to think the game was about even. Some plays could’ve been called against our team, such as the Jimmy DPI earlier, but then so could an OPI by Ebron on another play... those types of plays are ticky tacky. Yet the DPI calls in the second half ran counter to that, which I don’t like, but isn’t necessarily something that doesn’t happen. That’s not enough to blame refs. But that second to last TO or penalty play absolutely changed the complexity of this game. 15-18 seconds on the clock with 25 or so yards (Can’t remember where it was spotted) to go gives you plenty of plays you can run where you can get closer. Either a pass inside that you can then quickly clock for one last play OR a pass play where you get out of bounds for probably two more plays.

OR its a penalty for 15 yards and the Ravens have the ball at the 10 yard line with 7 seconds left. That’s just enough distance and time for two quick shots at the end zone, outside of a Steelers sack/FF ending the game. But at least then their team wouldve needed to make a play to WIN the game making them all the more worthy. But no, they were gifted an injury TO and the distance.

This after that play also resulted in Dobbins arguably getting out of bounds and their not blowing the whistle for the forward progress call, forcing the players to lose additional time (probably 5 seconds because everyone assumed it was out of bounds)... because if his forward progress was what ended the play... then there needed to be a whistle so the players are prepared to clock it, but they didn’t blow the whistle and then waited to let them know it still needed to be clocked after the fact.

So there’s almost no way they knew about the injury, but if he was down and injured and they didn’t realize it until the last second and the Steelers didn’t call a TO with Tomlin running on the field to get a TO called, then it should’ve been a penalty.

The refs interfered with the just that last drive, not the entire game. So I and I’m sure most Ravens fans have not said there was “a lot” of calls in that game. But there were two plays on that drive that resulted in 3 terrible ref performances that could be in question. I personally do not like ticky tack calls like that helmet to helmet. But after the crap they called on the previous play, that definitely was a play where I think they should’ve tossed the flag, not because I believe that play deserves it, but rather because they botched the previous play so bad that there needed to be a “makeup” call and that play presented an opportunity to do so. It would put the ball on the one yard line and it would be strength vs strength to see who wins the game.

[drd23]

So that's two former refs that agree the refs messed up on that call

[Ray Reed]

 

[Ray Reed]

1 minute ago, drd23 said:

So that's two former refs that agree the refs messed up on that call

But Steelers fans who are literally notorious for bit*%*ng about refs on the site are trying to say we shouldn’t bring this up 😂

So soft

[RavensfanRD]

At the end of the day, the Ravens just gotta handle what they gotta handle. A positive takeaway from this game would be that in spite of the insufferable fraudulence from the OC and LJ8, you still had a chance to win it at the end. With the penalties on defense (Some just, some not) you still had a chance to win it at the end. That gives me comfort that the Ravens might can change the course of our season when we meet the Steelers again in 4 weeks. But Roman and Wink gotta make adjustments in the second half. Steelers did and it helped them with a win. 

[DreamKid]

In this case, I like Hollywood spouting off. Lamar, Roman, Culley, etc. All need to be held accountable.

[diamondbull424]

42 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Maybe I don't quite understand the responsibilities of different coaches, but my understanding is that the "passing game coordinator / WR coach" would construct the plays in our passing game and teach our players how they're done.

The offensive coordinator calls the plays and generally creates the scheme? I honestly don't know how much of our passing game is a reflection of Greg Roman vs. Dave Culley.

I mean I’m not in any better position to know for sure, but I think the only way you could have a pass game coordinator is if you want to reward a coach for his performance in influencing a good passing attack, while not having him as your OC. Culley was given the title without having even earned it, so it’s hard to determine how much of the fault on the offense is on him or not. But we do know that prior to Culley, Roman designed some trash pass game concepts with WRs crowding other WR spots. We know he controls the scheme as well, so ultimately its also his fault regardless of if Culley isn’t doing his job. I mean, Roman has to see the X’s and O’s Of the play and say... why are these guys so close to one another on this play and question it. The fact that its happened multiple times and continues to happen on pass plays, tells me that either Roman has noticed those faults in Culley and this is a Harbaugh problem for not getting rid of Culley OR it’s that Roman just doesn’t know any better to correct Culley on developing such plays within the scheme, which is still his problem.

If we had an excellent pass game but a terrible run game it wouldn’t matter so much if it were 1970 because that’s how important the run game was back then. But it’s the 2020s, the passing game matters THAT much now. So if Roman is unable to develop a winning passing attack, then ultimately I put the blame on him. Harbaugh’s job is to win and he has coached teams that have done that recently. His focus was special teams and defense as a coach... and each year we have great units on that front. He’s still to blame for the offense though, just not as much as Roman. So along that note, regardless of how terrible Culley is the failures of our passing attack fall on Roman, even if he deserves that fault a little less than Culley... but he definitely deserves it, the only thing I’m not quite sure about is exactly how much fault to attribute him until, like you, I know a little more about the responsibilities of our coaches.

Either way, Lamar has not shown to be as accurate a passer as Drew Brees or Russell Wilson, but he’s not a terrible passer. When guys get space he can deliver. He can also thread the needle in traffic. Lamar isn’t Josh Allen from the last couple seasons before this one. He’s not missing by miles on his bad throws. He’s missing by about 1-2 feet here or there, like with his should’ve been pick on the Hayden play or by his Andrews pick where he should’ve floated it a little further and higher to avoid the pick. But Lamar is someone that if given an offensive genius to work with, is as good a passer as Derek Carr and Jared Goff. Lamar can be a quality QB just based on his passing ability alone... in a better designed passing scheme that protects him from his weaknesses.

However our scheme doesn’t protect Lamar. Crowd his passing avenues with multiple defenders and if Andrews man doesn’t make the play than another defender will (like on that play as Ricard’s man was the one that made the play). Lamar threw an interception and so sure, bad play by him, but I honestly think it’s pretty amazing how few interceptions Lamar throws when playing within our scheme. I mean Joe Flacco basically had the same scheme and yet his INT rate was always above 2.0 for his career here.

[DreamKid]

Better ways to handle it, I guess. Any extra attention payed to the systemic issues on offense are worth it imo though.

Lamar being worse in 2020 than he was 2019, notably in the pocket. And Roman emerging as legit scum ....  Has combined for some eye gouging frustration after such an enjoyable 2019 performance. It can't be allowed to continue.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

11 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

I mean I’m not in any better position to know for sure, but I think the only way you could have a pass game coordinator is if you want to reward a coach for his performance in influencing a good passing attack, while not having him as your OC. Culley was given the title without having even earned it, so it’s hard to determine how much of the fault on the offense is on him or not. But we do know that prior to Culley, Roman designed some trash pass game concepts with WRs crowding other WR spots. We know he controls the scheme as well, so ultimately its also his fault regardless of if Culley isn’t doing his job. I mean, Roman has to see the X’s and O’s Of the play and say... why are these guys so close to one another on this play and question it. The fact that its happened multiple times and continues to happen on pass plays, tells me that either Roman has noticed those faults in Culley and this is a Harbaugh problem for not getting rid of Culley OR it’s that Roman just doesn’t know any better to correct Culley on developing such plays within the scheme, which is still his problem.

If we had an excellent pass game but a terrible run game it wouldn’t matter so much if it were 1970 because that’s how important the run game was back then. But it’s the 2020s, the passing game matters THAT much now. So if Roman is unable to develop a winning passing attack, then ultimately I put the blame on him. Harbaugh’s job is to win and he has coached teams that have done that recently. His focus was special teams and defense as a coach... and each year we have great units on that front. He’s still to blame for the offense though, just not as much as Roman. So along that note, regardless of how terrible Culley is the failures of our passing attack fall on Roman, even if he deserves that fault a little less than Culley... but he definitely deserves it, the only thing I’m not quite sure about is exactly how much fault to attribute him until, like you, I know a little more about the responsibilities of our coaches.

Either way, Lamar has not shown to be as accurate a passer as Drew Brees or Russell Wilson, but he’s not a terrible passer. When guys get space he can deliver. He can also thread the needle in traffic. Lamar isn’t Josh Allen from the last couple seasons before this one. He’s not missing by miles on his bad throws. He’s missing by about 1-2 feet here or there, like with his should’ve been pick on the Hayden play or by his Andrews pick where he should’ve floated it a little further and higher to avoid the pick. But Lamar is someone that if given an offensive genius to work with, is as good a passer as Derek Carr and Jared Goff. Lamar can be a quality QB just based on his passing ability alone... in a better designed passing scheme that protects him from his weaknesses.

However our scheme doesn’t protect Lamar. Crowd his passing avenues with multiple defenders and if Andrews man doesn’t make the play than another defender will (like on that play as Ricard’s man was the one that made the play). Lamar threw an interception and so sure, bad play by him, but I honestly think it’s pretty amazing how few interceptions Lamar throws when playing within our scheme. I mean Joe Flacco basically had the same scheme and yet his INT rate was always above 2.0 for his career here.

I can't give out any more footballs today but yeah I can agree with this post entirely. I just feel like I don't care who truly manages teh passing game, I just want that completely overhauled because it's BEYOND trash right now.

HOwever, with regards to ROman, I feel like if we lose him (fire him or whatever), we're losing that creativity that drives the best run game in the NFL, and in today's NFL having that wrinkle and that identity can win you games and make you an elite team, especially when paired with arguably the best defense in the NFL as well. He definitely has his faults, but I feel like overall the job he's done with this team's identity on offense has been tremendous.

[Boodgyman5220]

I think we saw today what our offense needs to get back to. Run the ball 65% of the time. Lamar looked like Lamar running the ball today. With fluker and brown jr on the bookends that’s plays to our strength. 
 

also I was impressed with the 4th quarter Lamar. He seemed to relax a little and just play. Seemed like he started trusting his pass protections and stepped into the pocket to deliver. Get him rolling running the ball and the whole offense seems to open up

[diamondbull424]

58 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

I agree on Zeus Jr being a more natural LT than RT. Hey, maybe he has a great run and we can pull of the trade a LT for a premium pick maneuver with him?

Agree, but out of respect for him growing up in this organization I’d only be down for it if the move might also benefit Brown... such as going to another serious competing organization... one in the NFC obviously. A team like the Seahawks that seem to have a good organization and wouldn’t treat him bad. And I know, I shouldn’t be sentimental because football is a business, but I think part of why guys LOVE the Ravens organization so much is because they combine such empathy with their shrewd business acumen, they would be a successful company regardless of the medium they performed in with such business practices. If the Ravens were in coffee, they’d be the early 2000s Starbucks. If they were in fast food, they’d be Chic-Fil-A... and I may be sentimental here with regard to Brown Jr because he’s absolutely local and loves this franchise, but I hope they stay the kind of organization that you can root for as much for their ability to produce wins as you root for how good of a “team/family” culture they’re building.

Tbqh... I think the decision of who to sign comes down to Hollywood, Orlando, Mandrews, and Ngakoue, unless Lamar takes less than his market value in a Tom Brady type of fashion (which I think he might do)... of that bunch, I think... Hollywood and Andrews have to be on the table as trade ideas as much as Brown Jr. He’s shown PB ability on both sides of the OL, that’s INCREDIBLY valuable. His start to the season almost forced me to pivot, but with minimal help he stood his own against the Steelers elite pass rushers, how many LTs can say that? Sure it helps having Lamar back there, but still. That’s still easily worth paying him $15m/season for.

I’d argue what Brown gives as a backup LT as well as a great RT that is probably the best run blocking OT in the league is arguably worth just as much as the impact that Andrews and Hollywood add to our basic offense... and I say that knowing full well how special Andrews is when he’s on. Once we consider durability, Brown Jr’s reliability is something I might side with over a WR who has had foot work and a TE that as he ages his diabetes and youth will lead to even less quick recoveries from injuries off a second contract. For the same reasons we considered trading Stanley, we have to acknowledge with Mark Andrews... absolute beast at LT, but his durability made you question a contract... and his injury now makes me feel even worse about the deal we gave him. It happened on a freak play that wouldve severely injured anyone, but I’m more so worried from a recovery standpoint. Stanley has had issues with his ankles and lower body already... what are the chances that this surgery doesn’t make him even more likely to become injured in the future. I suppose we might still need to consider the prospect of trading Stanley if he’s not the same player when he comes back and another team is willing to part with value above the level he provides on his return.

[M.10.E]

Real talk, what IS Lamar’s market value. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, M.10.E said:

Real talk, what IS Lamar’s market value. 

The market value for an MVP QB is a blank check.

[M.10.E]

2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

The market value for an MVP QB is a blank check.

I am absolutely not giving him a blank check unless he pulls another mvp type run out of his ***. I think we should treat him like Dak. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by M.10.E