Top Starters of Last 100 Years

[redsoxsuck05]

1 minute ago, beekay414 said:

For sure. I hear ya. It's all preferential anyways, especially when it's talking about people we never actually saw pitch. I mean, I'm arguing for a Cardinal FFS. If I'm speaking from someone I've actually seen, then I'm taking Pedro 1000 times out of 1000.

The thing is, Gibson would've thrown harder and been more effective on a rate basis in 1999. Can you put Pedro in 1968 and have him throw 300 innings, even if he's trying to preserve his stamina like pitchers used to? Pedro would've been babied like Whitey Ford.

[redsoxsuck05]

18 minutes ago, SuperBowl=best said:

Koufax>>gibson.

 

That 1968 was overrated. Why didn't th Cards win it all that year, then?

 

 

Considering they won the year prior and lost 4-3 in 1968, this point is so so meaningless.

Yes, Gibson got outdueled by Mickey Lolich in Game 7 that year. Koufax, who you said was >>> than Gibson got outdueled by Jim Palmer in 1966. Seaver got outdueled in 1973 by Catfish. Maddux got outpitched by Glavine on his own team in 1995. Even Randy only won in 2001 because Rivera blew the save, but yeah, unlike Gibson he wasn't beaten.

Edited October 29, 2020 by redsoxsuck05

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, redsoxsuck05 said:

The thing is, Gibson would've thrown harder and been more effective on a rate basis in 1999. Can you put Pedro in 1968 and have him throw 300 innings, even if he's trying to preserve his stamina like pitchers used to? Pedro would've been babied like Whitey Ford.

See my last comment haha

[Forge]

Thread needs more Shawn Estes, tbh. 

[bigbadbuff]

I was too young to see the primes of Pedro, Randy, Maddux etc. I was 9 at the start of the 2003 season which is my first real memory of starting to follow the sport. Kershaw has had the best peak over multiple seasons since then.

[DirtyDez]

Randy got robbed in 2004.  He should’ve won 5 out of 6 CY’s.  Randy, Pedro and Maddux are interchangeable though.  

[mse326]

Like the list. Ordering them would be hell. Randy Johnson should be included too. I know that seems to saturate the time period with 4 players but they are all deserving.

A name left off that needs to be there is Left Grove. Started in 1925 so is within the 100 year time period. Has a good case to be the 2nd best pitcher ever behind Walter Johnson

[ramssuperbowl99]

With how athletic pitchers have gotten in the 20 years since Randy Johnson's prime, it's amazing that we still don't have a single guy who compares to him in any way. Guys throw 5 mph harder on average, with better training and technology and everything, and not only has no one been similar, no one has even been anything like him. We've seen guys come up and light it up since then, like Strasburg, Liriano, or Chapman. We've seen guys with maybe not quite Maddux command, but Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay on their day was something else. We've seen guys take pitching further than anyone else on pure stuff: Jordan Hicks hitting 105, DeGrom, Thor, etc. etc. We've seen guys put together extraordinary careers: Verlander, Scherzer, etc. 

But 6'10, LHP, starter, 95+, and command? Nobody. We've seen a few righties that tall, and usually they get shuttled to the bullpen.

Determining the "best" I think it really impossible to do with much certainty, but Randy Johnson is the single most unique pitcher I have ever seen.

[mse326]

5 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

With how athletic pitchers have gotten in the 20 years since Randy Johnson's prime, it's amazing that we still don't have a single guy who compares to him in any way. Guys throw 5 mph harder on average, with better training and technology and everything, and not only has no one been similar, no one has even been anything like him. We've seen guys come up and light it up since then, like Strasburg, Liriano, or Chapman. We've seen guys with maybe not quite Maddux command, but Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay on their day was something else. We've seen guys take pitching further than anyone else on pure stuff: Jordan Hicks hitting 105, DeGrom, Thor, etc. etc. We've seen guys put together extraordinary careers: Verlander, Scherzer, etc. 

But 6'10, LHP, starter, 95+, and command? Nobody. We've seen a few righties that tall, and usually they get shuttled to the bullpen.

Determining the "best" I think it really impossible to do with much certainty, but Randy Johnson is the single most unique pitcher I have ever seen.

He's a failed starter but a dominant reliever, Andrew Miller. There are certainly a lot separating them, but stylistically they are similar and for the shorter spurts Miller is as dominant

[bigbadbuff]

10 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

With how athletic pitchers have gotten in the 20 years since Randy Johnson's prime, it's amazing that we still don't have a single guy who compares to him in any way. Guys throw 5 mph harder on average, with better training and technology and everything, and not only has no one been similar, no one has even been anything like him. We've seen guys come up and light it up since then, like Strasburg, Liriano, or Chapman. We've seen guys with maybe not quite Maddux command, but Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay on their day was something else. We've seen guys take pitching further than anyone else on pure stuff: Jordan Hicks hitting 105, DeGrom, Thor, etc. etc. We've seen guys put together extraordinary careers: Verlander, Scherzer, etc. 

But 6'10, LHP, starter, 95+, and command? Nobody. We've seen a few righties that tall, and usually they get shuttled to the bullpen.

Determining the "best" I think it really impossible to do with much certainty, but Randy Johnson is the single most unique pitcher I have ever seen.

Dude hit a flying bird with a baseball. Nothing else needs to be said.

[beekay414]

8 minutes ago, bigbadbuff said:

Dude hit a flying bird with a baseball. Nothing else needs to be said.

[mission27]

Tbh the guy is obviously a crack head putting Kershaw on the list but not Unit.

Lefty Grove needs to be on the list too if we're really going back 100 years. Led the league in ERA nine times.

[mission27]

To me, Roger Clemens in the answer for #1 greatest and probably the GOAT. He was the best pitcher in baseball on and off for 20 ******* years. Imagine if the best pitcher in baseball right now was also the best pitcher in baseball at the end of the Clinton administration? Yeah yeah steroids who gives a ****. 

As far as who was most dominant in their prime... Pedro. But Randy comes close. And Maddux isn't far behind either. 

Pretty absurd all 4 guys were dominating at the same time. But Clemens was the best pitcher in baseball before any of them were in the league AND he was still the best pitcher in baseball once all three of those other guys were basically washed up. Tbh kids these days don't get how much of a cocksucker the guy was for so long.

[DirtyDez]

On 10/30/2020 at 9:26 AM, ramssuperbowl99 said:

With how athletic pitchers have gotten in the 20 years since Randy Johnson's prime, it's amazing that we still don't have a single guy who compares to him in any way. Guys throw 5 mph harder on average, with better training and technology and everything, and not only has no one been similar, no one has even been anything like him. We've seen guys come up and light it up since then, like Strasburg, Liriano, or Chapman. We've seen guys with maybe not quite Maddux command, but Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay on their day was something else. We've seen guys take pitching further than anyone else on pure stuff: Jordan Hicks hitting 105, DeGrom, Thor, etc. etc. We've seen guys put together extraordinary careers: Verlander, Scherzer, etc. 

But 6'10, LHP, starter, 95+, and command? Nobody. We've seen a few righties that tall, and usually they get shuttled to the bullpen.

Determining the "best" I think it really impossible to do with much certainty, but Randy Johnson is the single most unique pitcher I have ever seen.

Once he figured out he didn’t have throw with max effort all the the time it changed his career.  His slider mechanics were also very clean.

 

[redsoxsuck05]

On 10/30/2020 at 12:26 PM, ramssuperbowl99 said:

With how athletic pitchers have gotten in the 20 years since Randy Johnson's prime, it's amazing that we still don't have a single guy who compares to him in any way. Guys throw 5 mph harder on average, with better training and technology and everything, and not only has no one been similar, no one has even been anything like him. We've seen guys come up and light it up since then, like Strasburg, Liriano, or Chapman. We've seen guys with maybe not quite Maddux command, but Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay on their day was something else. We've seen guys take pitching further than anyone else on pure stuff: Jordan Hicks hitting 105, DeGrom, Thor, etc. etc. We've seen guys put together extraordinary careers: Verlander, Scherzer, etc. 

But 6'10, LHP, starter, 95+, and command? Nobody. We've seen a few righties that tall, and usually they get shuttled to the bullpen.

Determining the "best" I think it really impossible to do with much certainty, but Randy Johnson is the single most unique pitcher I have ever seen.

Helps that he got a lot of rope. He didn’t really figure it out until his late 20s and didn’t learn control until his 30s