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Colts at Lions


diehardlionfan

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11 minutes ago, flyguy1609 said:

only other thing i noticed when Golladay was in, Stafford was trying to force feed him. let stafford go to whoever is open spread the ball around.

 

Was that on Stafford or the playcalling, in your opinion? 

It's feeling like Stafford doesn't have the faith in the rest of the WR group and is keying in on KG like he used to do with Calvin. Both are really good receivers so I get it but you're handcuffing yourself if you do that. 

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1 hour ago, Karnage84 said:

Was that on Stafford or the playcalling, in your opinion? 

It's feeling like Stafford doesn't have the faith in the rest of the WR group and is keying in on KG like he used to do with Calvin. Both are really good receivers so I get it but you're handcuffing yourself if you do that. 

more the likely the playcalling but its like come on you have receiver X wide open but lets throw it to Kenny G with 4 guys on him.. they better do something soon to change that tho kenny G is already ruled out and M-jones maybe traded at the deadline. 

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1 minute ago, flyguy1609 said:

more the likely the playcalling but its like come on you have receiver X wide open but lets throw it to Kenny G with 4 guys on him.. they better do something soon to change that tho kenny G is already ruled out and M-jones maybe traded at the deadline. 

KG is reportedly "week to week" and potential IR candidate according to Ian Rapaport. If they trade Marvin, then that's essentially shutting the season down. That would say either a) Patricia and Quinn are coming back regardless of what happens this season or b) Patricia and/or Quinn are done barring an unlikely scenario of pulling out 9-7 or 10-6 out of thin air. 

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45 minutes ago, flyguy1609 said:

more the likely the playcalling but its like come on you have receiver X wide open but lets throw it to Kenny G with 4 guys on him.. they better do something soon to change that tho kenny G is already ruled out and M-jones maybe traded at the deadline. 

I think its a flaw that Stafford has had throughout his career and is a big part of his inconsistency.  He struggles against zone defenses.  He is not quick to make reads and seems to struggle diagnosing formations pre snap.  They were discussing the amount of zone D they were playing and it was evident with the tight windows that Stafford attempted to throw into that he wasn't reading things clear.  I love Stafford, but he does have some significant weaknesses which is why he hasn't led us to a playoff win despite a poor roster similar to the great QBs.  

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1 minute ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I think its a flaw that Stafford has had throughout his career and is a big part of his inconsistency.  He struggles against zone defenses.  He is not quick to make reads and seems to struggle diagnosing formations pre snap.  They were discussing the amount of zone D they were playing and it was evident with the tight windows that Stafford attempted to throw into that he wasn't reading things clear.  I love Stafford, but he does have some significant weaknesses which is why he hasn't led us to a playoff win despite a poor roster similar to the great QBs.  

Most teams play a lot of zone and Stafford has had success in the air for quite some time. Would it be more a combination of great D Line play/bad O Line play + zone defense?

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2 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Most teams play a lot of zone and Stafford has had success in the air for quite some time. Would it be more a combination of great D Line play/bad O Line play + zone defense?

Yes a lot of teams have zone aspects but run a man scheme primarily, or at least a good portion of the time.  Stafford looked lost throwing over the middle and although the protection wasn't ideal, he had time and still struggle a lot of the time.  I think it could have been the combo of only having to rush 4 to get some pressure most of the game and drop 7 into zones instead of 5 or 6, but it seems Stafford does the best when he has one v one matchups and can just read the S instead of having to worry about LBs and slot CBs sitting in the middle of the field. 

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2 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Yes a lot of teams have zone aspects but run a man scheme primarily, or at least a good portion of the time.  Stafford looked lost throwing over the middle and although the protection wasn't ideal, he had time and still struggle a lot of the time.  I think it could have been the combo of only having to rush 4 to get some pressure most of the game and drop 7 into zones instead of 5 or 6, but it seems Stafford does the best when he has one v one matchups and can just read the S instead of having to worry about LBs and slot CBs sitting in the middle of the field. 

Really good breakdown, thanks. 

 

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7 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

So, let’s say they follow that script. I’m not for or against at this point. I do want to know what the plan is. On a team, short of quality players trading Stafford and Golladay creates two more holes. 

So, how do they field a competitive team? How many years are you planning for a rebuild? 

Good players are easy to trade but not so easy to replace.

Needs following trades,

QB, 2 quality WR, RG, DE, DT, 2 LB, Safety, CB, and probably a RB. Those aren’t depth pieces rather starters. I would also like to add a high end OT and a 3 down RB.

I’m not against blowing the team up but I would like to know what the plan is. Having lots of draft picks is great if it’s an organization that knows how to spend them effectively. The Lions historically aren’t very good (regardless of management) at building rosters. I’m leery of trading effective players for an opportunity to select draft eligible players. 

There are lots of opportunities to draft 2nd tier receivers and QB’s. There should be plenty of second level WR available in free agency to. But, it’s unlikely they replace Golladay without spending the acquired capital. 

Part of a real rebuild and fully committing to it is accepting that your not likely to field a competitive team for a couple years.  It also likely means your going to be looking at essentially every position group as a need and do a lot of BPA drafting.  This team is not really in a good rebuild on the fly situation .  Bring in a new GM and coach let them evaluate the young talent and decide who’s worth keeping.  Any veterans that aren’t part of the long term plans should be traded for whatever you can get.  Golladay is a really good player but I’m not sure he’s a 20mil a year difference maker.  He’s on the last year of his deal, I’m not against franchising him but if there going to ultimately lose him they need to try to get capital in return. If we could move Stafford and Golladay for heavy draft capital we could be in a Dolphins esq position this offseason that would be very attractive to a GM that loves team building 

Edited by BigC421/
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11 minutes ago, BigC421/ said:

Part of a real rebuild and fully committing to it is accepting that your not likely to field a competitive team for a couple years.  It also likely means your going to be looking at essentially every position group as a need and do a lot of BPA drafting.  This team is not really in a good rebuild on the fly situation .  Bring in a new GM and coach let them evaluate the young talent and decide who’s worth keeping.  Any veterans that aren’t part of the long term plans should be traded for whatever you can get.  Golladay is a really good player but I’m not sure he’s a 20mil a year difference maker.  He’s on the last year of his deal, I’m not against franchising him but if there going to ultimately lose him they need to try to get capital in return. If we could move Stafford and Golladay for heavy draft capital we could be in a Dolphins esq position this offseason that would be very attractive to a GM that loves team building 

I'm with you. KG and Flowers are both on IR. We just lost the pivotal game in the season IMO. It was the first real test after stringing 2 wins in a row. Are we going to continue the momentum or be looking at the inevitable rebuild coming this off-season. We didn't just lose but we got our butts kicked. We should be starting to sell off assets like KG and Stafford to restock the cupboard and start on that path. 

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18 hours ago, BigC421/ said:

Part of a real rebuild and fully committing to it is accepting that your not likely to field a competitive team for a couple years.  It also likely means your going to be looking at essentially every position group as a need and do a lot of BPA drafting.  This team is not really in a good rebuild on the fly situation .  Bring in a new GM and coach let them evaluate the young talent and decide who’s worth keeping.  Any veterans that aren’t part of the long term plans should be traded for whatever you can get.  Golladay is a really good player but I’m not sure he’s a 20mil a year difference maker.  He’s on the last year of his deal, I’m not against franchising him but if there going to ultimately lose him they need to try to get capital in return. If we could move Stafford and Golladay for heavy draft capital we could be in a Dolphins esq position this offseason that would be very attractive to a GM that loves team building 

I don't think we are that far off to be honest.  With a good coach and a few pieces on the D, I think we can contend.  I also am ok with moving on from Stafford if we can get in position for Lawrence or Fields but I dont see that happening.  We have solid pieces on D but not a solid unit other than maybe CB if healthy.  With a smart GM and a coach that develops players on that side of the ball, we aren't overly far off.  You can fill in WR in free agency but its finding a QB and a coach and sprinkling in some talent to the D at LB and DL. 

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21 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I don't think we are that far off to be honest.  With a good coach and a few pieces on the D, I think we can contend.  I also am ok with moving on from Stafford if we can get in position for Lawrence or Fields but I dont see that happening.  We have solid pieces on D but not a solid unit other than maybe CB if healthy.  With a smart GM and a coach that develops players on that side of the ball, we aren't overly far off.  You can fill in WR in free agency but its finding a QB and a coach and sprinkling in some talent to the D at LB and DL. 

Yeah, I don't think we're that far off at all. If we had a good defense, this team would be very, very good. After one more off-season devoting picks/signings to defense, I think this team would be strong.

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6 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Yeah, I don't think we're that far off at all. If we had a good defense, this team would be very, very good. After one more off-season devoting picks/signings to defense, I think this team would be strong.

I agree, with the apteryx of a new coach, and hopefully GM.  Most turn arounds in the NFL don't take that long if you have the right QB and the right coach.  You can mask a lot of holes with gameplan and player development.  

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18 hours ago, BigC421/ said:

Part of a real rebuild and fully committing to it is accepting that your not likely to field a competitive team for a couple years.  It also likely means your going to be looking at essentially every position group as a need and do a lot of BPA drafting.  This team is not really in a good rebuild on the fly situation .  Bring in a new GM and coach let them evaluate the young talent and decide who’s worth keeping.  Any veterans that aren’t part of the long term plans should be traded for whatever you can get.  Golladay is a really good player but I’m not sure he’s a 20mil a year difference maker.  He’s on the last year of his deal, I’m not against franchising him but if there going to ultimately lose him they need to try to get capital in return. If we could move Stafford and Golladay for heavy draft capital we could be in a Dolphins esq position this offseason that would be very attractive to a GM that loves team building 

I agree. I like Golladay and don’t want to see him traded but if rumours about what he expects $$$$ are correct he’s way out of line. He isn’t CJ good.

if they don’t believe they can sign him then he should be traded.

I also agree with you that they’re not set up to rebuild on the fly. I simply fear what the outcome may look like after they trade everyone. Currently they have 1 WR under contract for next year. They will need a QB if Stafford is traded and I fear the urge to draft the QB OTF will be to strong leading you a repeat of putting a QB on the team before they get other issues sorted out. If they trade Stafford I hope they plan to run with a second tier QB next year using capital to build the team to a point where a rookie QB can have some success. 

I would hope if the Lions proceed down the rebuild path they do it right this time. Creating an identity, drafting BPA which hopefully luck shines down and they solve the lineman issues and MLB. Gosh it would be nice to have an everydown MLB that plays at a high level.

I don’t have any idea how this all plays out but I suspect Quinn will be here next year and likely Patricia as well. I just don’t see the Lions making big changes with how the season has unfolded and Covid issues. I’m not suggesting it’s what I favour but I feel it’s the likely outcome.

 

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18 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

I'm with you. KG and Flowers are both on IR. We just lost the pivotal game in the season IMO. It was the first real test after stringing 2 wins in a row. Are we going to continue the momentum or be looking at the inevitable rebuild coming this off-season. We didn't just lose but we got our butts kicked. We should be starting to sell off assets like KG and Stafford to restock the cupboard and start on that path. 

I hadn’t seen that KG and Flowers were put on IR. That is not good. 

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