Week 9 GDT - Green Bay Packers at San Francisco 49ers

[John232]

2 hours ago, N4L said:

Mosley is a RFA, so he will be back. I would bet we can have sherm back on a reasonable deal, something like 6-7m 

This defense needs a pass rush with 4. Yannick is a cornerstone type pass rusher who is very young. Those kind of guys dont become available on the free agent market very often. 

We gave dee ford 5/85 plus gave up a second round pick. I would say Yannick is easily worth 5/95 or something like that. 

Basically, lets get rid of ford and jimmy, then use that money to pay yannick, warner, williams, sherman. 

Yannick would push this defense back to elite status 

And we're going with a Rookie QB in this situation?

[Forge]

46 minutes ago, John232 said:

And we're going with a Rookie QB in this situation?

So I don't know if I'll end up putting up the pod that we did last week because it's so out of date now (I couldn't get it edited in time to beat the trade deadline or the Green Bay game), but I brought it up there, and I think it'd be an interesting and worthwhile scenario to entertain, if the Jags get Fields and have Minshew available. He's a low rent starting QB, but I'd grab him and draft a guy and let it play out for a year or two. Put him in Shanny's system, and he may be comparable to Jimmy. 2 years on a 6th round salary as well? Even if youre downgrading slightly from Jimmy in terms of play, that's such a huge boon in the pocket book. Minshew couldn't be that expensive in trade, and I'd rather him than Jones or Haskins if those teams draft a QB. 

Would you rather have Jimmy and Justin Skule, or Minshew + Trent Williams? Because I kind of think the latter, tbh...I feel like the latter outproduces the first. 

Minshew would profile fine as a Shanny QB even with the limited arm. 

I don't love it, but from a "let's moneyball this QB position", I think you could do a lot worse. 

[N4L]

1 hour ago, John232 said:

And we're going with a Rookie QB in this situation?

Yes. Rookie QB would do fine here, assuming its the right guy. 

 

We would have:

a good/great run game

kittle, deebo, aiyuk

kyle calling the plays

 

PLUS an elite defense. You can win a lot of games with a good run game and an elite defense. Throw in the weapons we have, plus a top 2 offensive coach in football and we can win 10+ games with a rookie QB imo.

Look at seattle in 2012. Russ was a rookie and they had an all time defense, and they made a really great run in the second half to make the playoffs. 

[757-NINER]

23 minutes ago, Forge said:

So I don't know if I'll end up putting up the pod that we did last week because it's so out of date now (I couldn't get it edited in time to beat the trade deadline or the Green Bay game), but I brought it up there, and I think it'd be an interesting and worthwhile scenario to entertain, if the Jags get Fields and have Minshew available. He's a low rent starting QB, but I'd grab him and draft a guy and let it play out for a year or two. Put him in Shanny's system, and he may be comparable to Jimmy. 2 years on a 6th round salary as well? Even if youre downgrading slightly from Jimmy in terms of play, that's such a huge boon in the pocket book. Minshew couldn't be that expensive in trade, and I'd rather him than Jones or Haskins if those teams draft a QB. 

Would you rather have Jimmy and Justin Skule, or Minshew + Trent Williams? Because I kind of think the latter, tbh...I feel like the latter outproduces the first. 

Minshew would profile fine as a Shanny QB even with the limited arm. 

I don't love it, but from a "let's moneyball this QB position", I think you could do a lot worse. 

Minshew wouldn't have been my first choice but your scenario makes alot of sense. Trading for him wouldn't cost us a premium pick. His salary would definitely allows us to make a hard run@resigning T. Williams. And given the weapons he'll have, he couldn't be that much worst than Jimmy.

[Justone2]

11 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

Ford had one really good year in 2018. Other than that, he had been solid. Ngakoue has been good and fairly consistent. In free agency, that's the going rate for good pass-rusher.Truly elite pass-rusher never hit the market so good luck waiting on one and paying them the going rate.

The key here is skillset to pair with Bosa. Ngakoue fits the type of guy you want opposite Bosa. Again, I'm not advocating for Ngakoue specifically. But I can see where N4L is coming from with wanting to make him a priority.

 

Ford had two years better than Ngakoue's best year. Ngakoue has been more consistent and shown more durability so far in his career no doubt but a healthy Ford in my eyes is a better pass rusher and fits great opposite Bosa. Also i am not advocating to wait on a elite pass rusher i would rather draft a speed rusher with our 2nd and either keep Ford or sign a veteran like Houston. 

 

Look i totally get the want for Ngakoue but in terms of money and teambuilding i think there are other ways to go that make more sense and give more options at other positions. I 100% agree we need to add speed rushers to the outside both to help Bosa and to help the interior and make the passer step up in the pocket. 

[757-NINER]

1 hour ago, Justone2 said:

Ford had two years better than Ngakoue's best year. Ngakoue has been more consistent and shown more durability so far in his career no doubt but a healthy Ford in my eyes is a better pass rusher and fits great opposite Bosa. Also i am not advocating to wait on a elite pass rusher i would rather draft a speed rusher with our 2nd and either keep Ford or sign a veteran like Houston.

Have to look at the team around them also. Ford played opposite Houston in KC, which allowed him to see far less double-teams and offenses chipping him. Ngakoue was really the only edge presence on those Jax teams so it was easier to isolate him and give help to his side. Stats don't always tell the whole story. From a skill-set perspective and athletic profile, , they're very much the same player. 

There's no incentive to keep Ford. This team needs to get away from relying on players who can't stay healthy. If you can shed Ford's contract with minimal cap hit, they should absolutely do it. And it wouldn't hurt to bring in a younger guy like Beasley on a one-year prove it deal. Maybe Koucerek can unlock the potential there and he does well in the Wide 9. Don't want us going after any past his prime vet like Houston. There's very little upside in those kind of moves imo. Bring back Hyder, who I think has been solid. Go after a frontline starter, whether that be Ngakoue or whoever. And sign a developmental young guy with experience like Beasley or Tak. You still have Willis to throw in there from a rotational perspective. And all these moves allows Lynch to not be forced into drafting a edge guy if the talent doesn't warrant it. Teams every year are forced to make picks based on need and not really talent or BPA. If you go into the draft thinking we have to draft a edge player is where I think things can go astray. But making those moves before the draft allows us flexibility and not be so dependant to 'hit' on a edge rusher.

 

[757-NINER]

I find it odd that no one in the media is giving Richie James love for playing hurt (very obvious he wasn't 100 percent) and still going for 180 yards receiving. If he can get healthy, I'd like to see him factor more into the WR rotation. Feels like I've been saying this for two years now but he deserves more opportunities.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

Just now, 757-NINER said:

I find it odd that no one in the media is giving Richie James love for playing hurt (very obvious he wasn't 100 percent) and still going for 180 yards receiving. If he can get healthy, I'd like to see him factor more into the WR rotation. Feels like I've been saying this for two years now but he deserves more opportunities.

Really? I'm not surprised. The 49ers are now a losing squad fading into obscurity. Richie James had a good game in total yards, but it was after getting spanked by Green Bay. He's also an unknown player. No one cares. 

[757-NINER]

12 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Really? I'm not surprised. The 49ers are now a losing squad fading into obscurity. Richie James had a good game in total yards, but it was after getting spanked by Green Bay. He's also an unknown player. No one cares. 

I'm talking about the media that covers the team....not the national media. Haven't seen James being mentioned as a bright spot in the game. Read and heard about Warner....but no love for James?

Edited November 7, 2020 by 757-NINER

[J-ALL-DAY]

39 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

I'm talking about the media that covers the team....not the national media. Haven't seen James being mentioned as a bright spot in the game. Read and heard about Warner....but no love for James?

I mean what are you looking for exactly? He got a lot of garbage time yards and yards when the Niners were down by over 20. Mullens had like 131 yards heading into the 4th quarter and ended up with damn near 300 yards.

But more than anything, I just hope James has earned himself some playing time, especially next week when the big 3 likely return. 

[49ersfan]

6 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

Have to look at the team around them also. Ford played opposite Houston in KC, which allowed him to see far less double-teams and offenses chipping him. Ngakoue was really the only edge presence on those Jax teams so it was easier to isolate him and give help to his side. Stats don't always tell the whole story. From a skill-set perspective and athletic profile, , they're very much the same player. 

There's no incentive to keep Ford. This team needs to get away from relying on players who can't stay healthy. If you can shed Ford's contract with minimal cap hit, they should absolutely do it. And it wouldn't hurt to bring in a younger guy like Beasley on a one-year prove it deal. Maybe Koucerek can unlock the potential there and he does well in the Wide 9. Don't want us going after any past his prime vet like Houston. There's very little upside in those kind of moves imo. Bring back Hyder, who I think has been solid. Go after a frontline starter, whether that be Ngakoue or whoever. And sign a developmental young guy with experience like Beasley or Tak. You still have Willis to throw in there from a rotational perspective. And all these moves allows Lynch to not be forced into drafting a edge guy if the talent doesn't warrant it. Teams every year are forced to make picks based on need and not really talent or BPA. If you go into the draft thinking we have to draft a edge player is where I think things can go astray. But making those moves before the draft allows us flexibility and not be so dependant to 'hit' on a edge rusher.

 

I would like a DL with Bosa & Ngakoue as our starting DE's, and Blair, Hyder, & Willis as the backups 

Interior DL of Kinlaw, Armstead, Givens, & Daniels. Maybe draft a run plugging DT late in the draft. 

Assuming Jones, Thomas, Street, Ansah, Jordan, & Ford are goners

Edited November 7, 2020 by 49ersfan

[Chrissooner49er]

I would be on board with getting Minshew if he was cheap.