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Where does Derek Carr rank?


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Curious as to where everyone would rank Derek Carr in terms of starting quarterbacks at this point in his career. He’s not putting up eye popping numbers but he’s quietly having a pretty good season with a 4-3 record including a win over Kansas City,  14:2 td to int a little over  220 yards a game.

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If he played the way he did against us in week 5 every week, he'd be a top 5 QB hands down. I loved (well, hated, but you get it) his aggressiveness, his deep accuracy.

Unfortunately, that's still looking like an outlier to his season and his career. I think he's solidly in that 10 to 15 range, a little bit above average, as one of those guys that you can win with, but you need the better version of them to show up and have a pretty well-built team around them. 

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6 minutes ago, Vladimir L said:

top 15 for sure

 

10th to 15th

I’d agree with that. He’s divided opinion within the Raiders fanbase for years but finally we seem to be back to unanimous agreement that he’s the right guy for the job. I think it helps that he’s finally been taking plenty of deep shots this year (and showing that he can do so with success). He still has his flaws, and is never going to carry a team, but if you have the pieces in place you can definitely win with him.

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Oh no not another Carr thread!

He's a middle of the pack QB. Could do a loooot worse but won't win you any Super Bowls without an elite supporting cast. He's done extremely well in Gruden's WCO and we're really only asking him to manage games for us. I am happy with how he's done and think he's our QB going forward still.

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These guys I would say are better than him 

Wilson

Mahomes

Watson

Jackson

Rodgers

Brady

Big Ben

Allen

Brees 

Ryan

Dak

I think it's reasonable to have Carr anywhere from 9-15 depending on how you feel about certain guys. I have Tannehill and Carr as almost dead even in terms of who I think is better. But you could argue Tannehill over him and I wouldn't fight you too much. I also think you could argue Carr being better than a couple of guys that I listed above at this point in time (Brees and Ryan) but I personally still give those guys the edge. 

Carr is firmly in the franchise QB list. He has a ton of desirable traits in a QB that you want/need to have a chance at winning it all with them. He also leaves a little something to be desired in other areas that may be just as important. I think Carr has proven at this point in his career that he needs a top 10 OL, and at least one sure handed, big bodied, guy that he can lean on (was Crabtree in his fringe MVP year, is Waller currently). Carr isn't the QB that can take an average OL and bottom 5 WR core, bottom 5 defense and go out and win you 10+ games. Not many guys do fit that bill though. Carr has also shown that he can adapt to numerous different offensive schemes but to truly see his best you'll have to likely live with a year or two of some real inconsistency while he's trying to master it. 

I believe Carr is a guy you can win a championship with. He's good enough to do that. And I don't mean he can win one being carried by an all time defense. He can be the engineer behind a top 10 offense. But if he's your guy you will always have to invest heavily in your OL (be it draft picks or free agent money or both). Pressure even semi regularly is the easiest path to seeing conservative to a fault, inaccurate, flustered DC. 

I honestly think just off talent Carr would be a consensus top 5-8 guy had he been drafted to one of the more stable franchises (KC, Pittsburgh, GB, NO, heck even the Colts). Sure it can be said a lot of guys would do better in better situations, but I think Carr has gotten a lot of flack, some fairly because he has his faults, but some unfairly because of the situation he's been placed in. Came in to a total dumpster fire, played under 2 HCs in his rookie year, got a little stability with Del Rio and Musgrave and showed a ton of development and consistency, had the injury and then another change in OC to a first time play coordinator and play caller, it was a disaster. Gets a new HC, new OC, and put smack dab in another total rebuild that saw his entire offensive system change (to a notoriously complex one), saw almost his entire OL overhauled from one of the best in his best season to average to below average (now back to being pretty damn good), saw his entire core of pass catchers shipped out (2 of them being pro bowl to all pro caliber players), has had a defense that has never been higher than the 20's his entire career (and usually closer to the 30's), saw the one elite player on defense traded... He has really been the only constant throughout his career with the Raiders. That's tough for any QB. 

So a long winded way of saying he's anywhere from the 10th best to 15th best QB in the league. He has the talent to be a top 7ish guy IMO. But also has some glaring flaws that at this point guarantee he'll never be a truly elite, top 5 guy. But he's still not even 30 and I think it's entirely possible we haven't seen the best version of DC yet. He'd shown me enough to want to keep building around him (depending on how the rest of the season goes)  

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Hard to do exact spots, it's way too volatile, but I'd say he's a step below the established elites (Wilson among others) and the guys on the doorstep of being elite (Watson among others), which puts him around that 7-12 range. I think he's certainly impressed this year and shown, despite what seems to have become the recent belief, QBs can continue improving well into their career. He has improved substantially at throwing under pressure over the years.

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I think hes good yet very replaceable at the same time. If that makes any sense. 

I feel like unless the Raiders get a dominant defense and multiple big time playmakers, hes the type of QB who will lead a perpetual 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 treadmill team. Hes basically the QB version of the 2000s Atlanta Hawks.

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Probably somewhere between 11 and 16. He's a slightly above average starter who is going to more or less be the product of his environment. Have him a bit above average because of his arm talent. He doesn't have a Stafford-esque bazooka, but nevertheless a good arm and he's proven to be pretty damn accurate.

The reason he's not in the upper echelon is because he lacks toughness, generally speaking. He fumbles the ball too easily, at the slightest contact. Too often he will panic when the pocket gets muddy, and he is still at times a bit too eager to check down (the patriots hilariously took advantage of that by doubling the checkdown and had him really confused).

It's not to say he's a choker or lacks effort, we've seen him engineer game winning drives many times, we've seen him put his body on the line and dive/reach out (often times leading to fumbles)... but he just lacks physical toughness. Heck, I brought up Stafford earlier, and if you just gave him Stafford's build/athletic ability/aggressive nature, I think you'd basically have exactly what Raider fans had hoped Carr would be. Stafford with more accuracy and less arm strength.

Edited by Turnobili
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13 or 14, probably 14.

Ahead of him (no order):

Russell Wilson

Patrick Mahomes

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Deshaun Watson

Matt Ryan

Ryan Tannehil

Ben Roethlisberger

Drew Brees

Lamar Jackson

Josh Allen

Dak Prescott

Matt Stafford (debatable, but I think Stafford is better)

You also have guys not far behind him in: Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, Kyler Murray, and Jimmy Garrappolo.

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45 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

13 or 14, probably 14.

Ahead of him (no order):

Russell Wilson

Patrick Mahomes

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Deshaun Watson

Matt Ryan

Ryan Tannehil

Ben Roethlisberger

Drew Brees

Lamar Jackson

Josh Allen

Dak Prescott

Matt Stafford (debatable, but I think Stafford is better)

You also have guys not far behind him in: Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, Kyler Murray, and Jimmy Garrappolo.

Goff is top 10

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54 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

13 or 14, probably 14.

Ahead of him (no order):

Russell Wilson

Patrick Mahomes

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Deshaun Watson

Matt Ryan

Ryan Tannehil

Ben Roethlisberger

Drew Brees

Lamar Jackson

Josh Allen

Dak Prescott

Matt Stafford (debatable, but I think Stafford is better)

You also have guys not far behind him in: Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, Kyler Murray, and Jimmy Garrappolo.

I think Wentz, Goff, Murray are better than him. 

I have him and jimmy G neck and neck 

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2 hours ago, Mr Raider said:

These guys I would say are better than him 

Wilson

Mahomes

Watson

Jackson

Rodgers

Brady

Big Ben

Allen

Brees 

Ryan

Dak

I think it's reasonable to have Carr anywhere from 9-15 depending on how you feel about certain guys. I have Tannehill and Carr as almost dead even in terms of who I think is better. But you could argue Tannehill over him and I wouldn't fight you too much. I also think you could argue Carr being better than a couple of guys that I listed above at this point in time (Brees and Ryan) but I personally still give those guys the edge. 

Carr is firmly in the franchise QB list. He has a ton of desirable traits in a QB that you want/need to have a chance at winning it all with them. He also leaves a little something to be desired in other areas that may be just as important. I think Carr has proven at this point in his career that he needs a top 10 OL, and at least one sure handed, big bodied, guy that he can lean on (was Crabtree in his fringe MVP year, is Waller currently). Carr isn't the QB that can take an average OL and bottom 5 WR core, bottom 5 defense and go out and win you 10+ games. Not many guys do fit that bill though. Carr has also shown that he can adapt to numerous different offensive schemes but to truly see his best you'll have to likely live with a year or two of some real inconsistency while he's trying to master it. 

I believe Carr is a guy you can win a championship with. He's good enough to do that. And I don't mean he can win one being carried by an all time defense. He can be the engineer behind a top 10 offense. But if he's your guy you will always have to invest heavily in your OL (be it draft picks or free agent money or both). Pressure even semi regularly is the easiest path to seeing conservative to a fault, inaccurate, flustered DC. 

I honestly think just off talent Carr would be a consensus top 5-8 guy had he been drafted to one of the more stable franchises (KC, Pittsburgh, GB, NO, heck even the Colts). Sure it can be said a lot of guys would do better in better situations, but I think Carr has gotten a lot of flack, some fairly because he has his faults, but some unfairly because of the situation he's been placed in. Came in to a total dumpster fire, played under 2 HCs in his rookie year, got a little stability with Del Rio and Musgrave and showed a ton of development and consistency, had the injury and then another change in OC to a first time play coordinator and play caller, it was a disaster. Gets a new HC, new OC, and put smack dab in another total rebuild that saw his entire offensive system change (to a notoriously complex one), saw almost his entire OL overhauled from one of the best in his best season to average to below average (now back to being pretty damn good), saw his entire core of pass catchers shipped out (2 of them being pro bowl to all pro caliber players), has had a defense that has never been higher than the 20's his entire career (and usually closer to the 30's), saw the one elite player on defense traded... He has really been the only constant throughout his career with the Raiders. That's tough for any QB. 

So a long winded way of saying he's anywhere from the 10th best to 15th best QB in the league. He has the talent to be a top 7ish guy IMO. But also has some glaring flaws that at this point guarantee he'll never be a truly elite, top 5 guy. But he's still not even 30 and I think it's entirely possible we haven't seen the best version of DC yet. He'd shown me enough to want to keep building around him (depending on how the rest of the season goes)  

This is probably the best assessment of Carr I’ve read. Spot on. 

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