Where does Derek Carr rank?

[Mr Raider]

42 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

I think Wentz, Goff, Murray are better than him. 

I have him and jimmy G neck and neck 

I definitely have Carr over Wentz currently, and I have never been the biggest Wentz fan. He's actually similar to Carr IMO in the sense of both having one real high end, MVP caliber season, an injury and then never getting back to that form, at least as of yet, but both showing flashes of still being that guy but also some lows that are worse than any lows since their rookie seasons. Both being so young though that you can't discount them getting back to that level with the right cast around them. I kind of feel like Wentz is currently playing like Carr did 2 years after his injury against the Colts. Different style QBs so not in that way because Wentz is more turnover prone where Carr never really has been bad in that area. But Wentz also makes way more plays with his legs and big plays overall. Less accurate short and middle part of the field though. I firmly believe Carr is a better QB than Wentz today.

I also have Carr above Goff, but they're close. I won't argue that one too much. I honestly just spaced him and Murray though. Was just going off the top of my head. Both of those guys have arguments as being above Carr, so I wouldn't call it crazy for anyone to have them above Carr, but I want to see a little more from Murray. I think Goff and Carr are extremely close. Right in that same area with Tannehill on how you want to order them. 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Mr Raider

[MrOaktown_56]

4 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Oh no not another Carr thread!

He's a middle of the pack QB. Could do a loooot worse but won't win you any Super Bowls without an elite supporting cast. He's done extremely well in Gruden's WCO and we're really only asking him to manage games for us. I am happy with how he's done and think he's our QB going forward still.

He's definitely at least a little better than that.

The second bold is absolutely wrong. He's done a lot more than "manage games" this year. 

And in year 7, he is getting better. 

The Chiefs game may be an "outlier", but I think as he continues to build chemistry with these receivers, you're going to see some big time performances from him down the stretch.

He's in the Tanehill, Ryan, Stafford category right now. All good quarterbacks in the league. 

Can he become a consistent top 10 quarterback and a household name? Possibly. Depends on if he continues to improve in terms of aggressiveness, instincts, and using his feet to improvise.

But THIS season, he has been very good.

[Vladimir L]

3 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Lmao.

Goff has won bigger games than

 

Jackson

watson

dak

josh allen

 

 

and was been more relevant than matt ryan

 

 

had a bad game this week but in january he has done more than the qbs mentioned above

[Archimedes]

He’s probably top 10 at this point. I have a hard time still putting Brady, Brees, Ryan, Roethlisberger, or Stafford ahead of him. 

In no order, QBs I’d have ahead of him:

Mahomes

Wilson

Rodgers

Watson

Jackson

Tannehill

Allen is more talented but he needs a bigger body of work as a good passer before I move him ahead. Burrow and Herbert are showing promise but they’re rookies. Cousins and Jimmy G are usually solid but they’re having down years. Dak has an argument over him I suppose. Wentz is more talented but he’s wildly inconsistent. No one else would be worth bringing up.
 

Credit to Chucky. He’s always done a great job getting the most out of his QBs. While I don’t think he’s quite as good a coach as Payton or Reid overall, he’s on par with those guys as far as maximizing his QBs strengths.

 

[Archimedes]

7 minutes ago, Vladimir L said:

Goff has won bigger games than

 

Jackson

watson

dak

josh allen

 

 

and was been more relevant than matt ryan

 

 

had a bad game this week but in january he has done more than the qbs mentioned above

Goff has been wildly inconsistent since his Monday night masterpiece against the Chiefs. He and Wentz are the same guys right now. Extremely talented but very uneven.

[Hunter2_1]

12th. 

[Darbsk]

Its so hard to rank Carr with what he's had to work with in the past. This is the first year since 2016 he's had decent talent around him and consistency in a system. Even then we've been missing our #1 and #3 WRs all year and of course 2 of our 3 best linemen so I think he's played really, really well this year. He has to be fringe top 10 I would say but generally outside the top 5 or 6 QBs I think 7 to 15 are pretty much all interchangeable depending upon what qualities you want in a QB.

He's playing as well as anyone outside the elite guys at the moment though and it's no coincidence that he has a decent support cast at last. If we can just get even an average defence that can create the odd short field we could see even more from him.

[Nightime]

Putting up good numbers but so are a lot of guys

[MrOaktown_56]

6 hours ago, Nightime said:

Putting up good numbers but so are a lot of guys

The difference is, he's not beating up on bad teams. We've played brutal competition and somehow managed to stay afloat with a defense allowing 30+ per game. No small feat.

And I'm not putting down the rest of our team. The defense just hasn't been very good. Neither has the run blocking until this week.

[Ryno]

This is without a doubt Carr's best season imo... 

• He's not just managing the game, he's carrying the team as the run game has somewhat struggled and the defence has been terrible points-wise
• He seems to have finally overcome the happy feet in the pocket and is using his legs
• He's taking shots down field and using his receivers!

*Happy to eat crow as I was for replacing Carr this season due to the check-downs and skittishness in the pocket, but he has massively proven me wrong so far!

I imagine he would sit around the 10-15 range.

Edited November 4, 2020 by Ryno

[Zappaz]

He's been solid this year, probably 3rd best in the division.

[iknowcool]

I feel like this is the hardest year to rank QBs.  Maybe not in the top five, but past that?  I wouldn't even know where to begin

[Bearerofnews]

I always thought of him as a conservative poor man's Rodgers.

[43M]

On 11/2/2020 at 11:31 PM, Archimedes said:

He’s probably top 10 at this point. I have a hard time still putting Brady, Brees, Ryan, Roethlisberger, or Stafford ahead of him. 

In no order, QBs I’d have ahead of him:

Mahomes

Wilson

Rodgers

Watson

Jackson

Tannehill

Allen is more talented but he needs a bigger body of work as a good passer before I move him ahead. Burrow and Herbert are showing promise but they’re rookies. Cousins and Jimmy G are usually solid but they’re having down years. Dak has an argument over him I suppose. Wentz is more talented but he’s wildly inconsistent. No one else would be worth bringing up.
 

Credit to Chucky. He’s always done a great job getting the most out of his QBs. While I don’t think he’s quite as good a coach as Payton or Reid overall, he’s on par with those guys as far as maximizing his QBs strengths.

 

You say you have a hard time putting Brady, Brees and Ben ahead of him, but offer absolutely no insight as to why that is the case.    Seems more like recency bias than an actual assessment of their play.

Perhaps you could argue Derek is having a better season than them...so be it....but its a bit contradictory to say Josh Allen needs a better body of work while ignoring that. until this season, Carr hasnt been more than a fairly average QB the last 3 years.     So a half a season is good enough to move him a head of guys who have been far more consistent and are all still playing a pretty high level now?     Again, I can buy the argument that Carr is having a better season than those guys in 2020, but I am failing to see what he has done to be ranked above them as overall QBs.    

For the record, I like Derek Carr, and think he is a top 10-12 QB in the right situation, but he has yet to show the consistency to be moved up over those guys.     He is in a similar situation to where Tannehill was last year....playing well, but people rightfully wondering how long it will last.    If Carr finishes this season strong and continues playing well into next year, then I could see him making a big jump up the list....but there have been numerous QBs who have had a good start to a season or a great season sandwiched in between their typical average ones.     I think Carr is better than that and I do think he can POSSIBLY maintain a higher level QB play, but Brady, Brees and Ben are all playing on a similar level to Carr RIGHT NOW and have been far more consistent from season to season.

[Archimedes]

10 hours ago, 43M said:

On 11/2/2020 at 6:31 PM, Archimedes said:

 

You say you have a hard time putting Brady, Brees and Ben ahead of him, but offer absolutely no insight as to why that is the case.    Seems more like recency bias than an actual assessment of their play.

Instead of making a jump to me using “recency bias”, you could have just asked me why I ranked Carr over those guys.

Carr had a strong season statistically last year finishing top 10 in QBR, ANY/A, PR, and DVOA, and he’s doing that again this year. When you factor in aging and injuries for those other guys, it’s hardly a stretch to put him over them. What reason would you give that they still deserve to be ranked ahead of Carr? 

10 hours ago, 43M said:

Perhaps you could argue Derek is having a better season than them...so be it....but its a bit contradictory to say Josh Allen needs a better body of work while ignoring that. until this season, Carr hasnt been more than a fairly average QB the last 3 years.     So a half a season is good enough to move him a head of guys who have been far more consistent and are all still playing a pretty high level now?     Again, I can buy the argument that Carr is having a better season than those guys in 2020, but I am failing to see what he has done to be ranked above them as overall QBs. 

No, it’s not contradictory, unless you don’t know what Carr did last season, which you don’t seem to. Carr had a better season than Brady last year as well. Big Ben was obviously hurt. Brees was better but he didn’t play the whole season. I’m not ranking Carr solely off this season. I’m including what he did last year too.

 

10 hours ago, 43M said:

For the record, I like Derek Carr, and think he is a top 10-12 QB in the right situation, but he has yet to show the consistency to be moved up over those guys.     He is in a similar situation to where Tannehill was last year....playing well, but people rightfully wondering how long it will last. 

Carr played well last year too. I don’t think comparing him to Tannehill knocks him down much, because I think you can also argue Tannehill is a currently a top 8-10 QB based off his play the last 2 seasons collectively. If those two guys fall off in the future it doesn't negate what they’ve done in the 19 and 20 seasons, and where they deserve to be ranked in the here and now.

11 hours ago, 43M said:

  If Carr finishes this season strong and continues playing well into next year, then I could see him making a big jump up the list....but there have been numerous QBs who have had a good start to a season or a great season sandwiched in between their typical average ones.     I think Carr is better than that and I do think he can POSSIBLY maintain a higher level QB play, but Brady, Brees and Ben are all playing on a similar level to Carr RIGHT NOW and have been far more consistent from season to season.

If you want to make the argument that Brady, Brees, and Ben are still better than Carr that’s fine. I’d take Carr over those guys right now and I think that’s a more than reasonable take to make, unless we're also taking the 2018 season into account. I personally don’t, as all 4 of those QBs are fairly different since that season.