Hypothetical Trade

[Rockice_8]

On 11/3/2020 at 8:02 AM, xrade said:

I did. So?

I assume you would be largely in the minority then.

[xrade]

I just would not want to trade a good player for a potentially good player. I guess you could argue the three of them are all only potentially good as of right now.  My biggest take is that a good WR is easier to obtain via FA or draft than a good DT.  I believe we can get a good WR next year by whatever pathway and still keep Q.

Now, if the hypothetical question was to include a clause that stated "if the only way we could get a good WR prospect such as Lamb/Jeudy in the next two years was to trade Q..."  then I might have more pause to answer as I did.

[jetsfan4life51]

33 minutes ago, xrade said:

I just would not want to trade a good player for a potentially good player. I guess you could argue the three of them are all only potentially good as of right now.  My biggest take is that a good WR is easier to obtain via FA or draft than a good DT.  I believe we can get a good WR next year by whatever pathway and still keep Q.

Now, if the hypothetical question was to include a clause that stated "if the only way we could get a good WR prospect such as Lamb/Jeudy in the next two years was to trade Q..."  then I might have more pause to answer as I did.

I think DT is fairly easy to find.  We found JFM and Foley.  For all the high picks we used on DL we've wasted pretty much all of them.  Even go back to the days of Rex Ryan with DeVito and Pouha.  The 3-4 has always been better off finding your stud pass rushers and NT and get the guys who just do their job on the DL.  You mentioned how the Steelers have a great DL which is true but they also have two great pass rushers and have a history of having great LBs and pass rushers.  

[xrade]

1 hour ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

I think DT is fairly easy to find.  We found JFM and Foley.  For all the high picks we used on DL we've wasted pretty much all of them.  Even go back to the days of Rex Ryan with DeVito and Pouha.  The 3-4 has always been better off finding your stud pass rushers and NT and get the guys who just do their job on the DL.  You mentioned how the Steelers have a great DL which is true but they also have two great pass rushers and have a history of having great LBs and pass rushers.  

Much of what you say is true, but I am talking about finding a good,  penetrating DT which I think Q is and will be.  Yes, we have JFM and Fats and as I mentioned they can form the nucleus of the iDL.  Get that pass rusher on the edge and/or a decent DE and we are set.  The other thing is would JFM be as good without Q?  I exclude Fats because he is really a 2-down run stuffing NT.

Mike was really a JAG (2.5 sacks over 6 Jet seasons). Pouha is in the Fats NT category (4.5 sacks over 7 years).  They were decent at holding the line and clogging the lanes.  Rex's D had really good ILB and DB's especially at CB.

The point is, we can get JAGS on the iDL just like we can get JAGS at WR (apparently that is all we have, Mims excluded for now).  But to get that good iDL, a penetrating DT who also plays the run well is IMHO more difficult to find than a good WR.

As for Pit, Tuitt is a really good iDL.  Would he be as good without Dupree, Heyward, and TJ on the current Jets team?  Maybe, but you build around guys like that.  If Pit thought DT was so easy to find, I doubt they would have extended him in 2017 for 5 years and $60M.  Why does Pit always have good WR's?  It is because they have an eye for WR talent and draft them.  Do they resign them?  Not really.  They know they can get a good WR every year if they want to replace the good WR that wants a huge contract extension.

Edited November 4, 2020 by xrade

[JetsandI]

1 hour ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

I think DT is fairly easy to find.  We found JFM and Foley.  For all the high picks we used on DL we've wasted pretty much all of them.  Even go back to the days of Rex Ryan with DeVito and Pouha.  The 3-4 has always been better off finding your stud pass rushers and NT and get the guys who just do their job on the DL.  You mentioned how the Steelers have a great DL which is true but they also have two great pass rushers and have a history of having great LBs and pass rushers.  

You forget Big Snacks.  Not cool. lol.    Anyway, DL tendency seems workable for Jets. I agree that we should lightly ignore DL until other most glaring positions are approvingly improving.  

I was honestly okay with drafting QW because I truly expected the defense becoming more natural 4-3.  Oh well.

[jetsfan4life51]

1 hour ago, JetsandI said:

I was honestly okay with drafting QW because I truly expected the defense becoming more natural 4-3.  Oh well.

If we start running a 4-3 base then Q becomes more important IMO. 

[jetsfan4life51]

1 hour ago, xrade said:

Much of what you say is true, but I am talking about finding a good,  penetrating DT which I think Q is and will be.  Yes, we have JFM and Fats and as I mentioned they can form the nucleus of the iDL.  Get that pass rusher on the edge and/or a decent DE and we are set.  The other thing is would JFM be as good without Q?  I exclude Fats because he is really a 2-down run stuffing NT.

Mike was really a JAG (2.5 sacks over 6 Jet seasons). Pouha is in the Fats NT category (4.5 sacks over 7 years).  They were decent at holding the line and clogging the lanes.  Rex's D had really good ILB and DB's especially at CB.

The point is, we can get JAGS on the iDL just like we can get JAGS at WR (apparently that is all we have, Mims excluded for now).  But to get that good iDL, a penetrating DT who also plays the run well is IMHO more difficult to find than a good WR.

As for Pit, Tuitt is a really good iDL.  Would he be as good without Dupree, Heyward, and TJ on the current Jets team?  Maybe, but you build around guys like that.  If Pit thought DT was so easy to find, I doubt they would have extended him in 2017 for 5 years and $60M.  Why does Pit always have good WR's?  It is because they have an eye for WR talent and draft them.  Do they resign them?  Not really.  They know they can get a good WR every year if they want to replace the good WR that wants a huge contract extension.

DL is also about rotation.  You can get away with a bunch of guys and role players.  WR you aren't rotating 5 guys on the outside on passing downs vs running downs.  WR you need a player who is good enough to stay on the field and be the go to guy.  Especially in today's league.

[xrade]

30 minutes ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

DL is also about rotation.  You can get away with a bunch of guys and role players.  WR you aren't rotating 5 guys on the outside on passing downs vs running downs.  WR you need a player who is good enough to stay on the field and be the go to guy.  Especially in today's league.

By that logic drafting a RB high in the draft should be verboten.  You feel the Jets should draft Entienne at the end of the first, correct?  Why?  Many teams utilize a RBC approach which relegates the RB to severe rotational duties.  Why draft a RB in the first when he may only get 20%-30% of the O snaps?

 

[jetsfan4life51]

3 minutes ago, xrade said:

By that logic drafting a RB high in the draft should be verboten.  You feel the Jets should draft Entienne at the end of the first, correct?  Why?  Many teams utilize a RBC approach which relegates the RB to severe rotational duties.  Why draft a RB in the first when he may only get 20%-30% of the O snaps?

 

I'm not married to taking a RB that high.  I just want to surround whoever our QB is with more weapons.  I'd be perfectly okay with taking another 3rd round RB, moreso if Perine gets snaps and shows what he can do.

[xrade]

6 minutes ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

I'm not married to taking a RB that high.  I just want to surround whoever our QB is with more weapons.  I'd be perfectly okay with taking another 3rd round RB, moreso if Perine gets snaps and shows what he can do.

Holy crap we agree on something!  You are not my wife using a pseudonym.