QB for the next 10 years - Burrow or Jackson?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Here's an honest question - is it different to knock Joe Burrow for getting injured after taking a million hits before Lamar, considering the narrative around Lamar is always "he's going to get injured running like that!"?

[SmittyBacall]

48 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Burrow's been taking wicked shots in the NFL from game one.

He has. Mostly due to the terrible OL play, partly due to Burrow’s “Kobe” mentality, or willingness to sacrifice everything (including his body) in the name of winning. It’s something he needs to clean up. It’s not uncommon for young QBs have this mentality of invincibility (or any young person in any field, for that matter). He will learn eventually as he matures. Burrow is a tough dude. Going down is against his instincts at the moment. Having said that, he has improved already. He has been protecting himself much more over the past month compared to the start of the year.

48 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

He has been playing as if he is a good athlete, which he was in college, rather than the subpar athlete he is in the NFL.

He is a good athlete. He doesn’t rely on his legs, so this doesn’t really matter. 

48 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

It's easy to have good pocket presence at LSU with a beast O-Line and dominant skill position players that discourage blitzing.

This doesn’t make sense, nor is it true. Pocket presence is pocket presence. Supporting cast has little to do with it. Burrow’s pocket presence was great at LSU, and it has transitioned very well to the NFL.

48 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

His lack of awareness of his athleticism relative to NFL defenders athleticism has been obvious for a while now. 

You have been watching too many Johnny Manziel clips. This doesn’t apply to Joe Burrow.

Edited November 23, 2020 by SmittyBacall

[SmittyBacall]

20 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Here's an honest question - is it different to knock Joe Burrow for getting injured after taking a million hits before Lamar, considering the narrative around Lamar is always "he's going to get injured running like that!"?

Burrow has been getting killed in the pocket, not as a runner. Two different things, IMO. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, SmittyBacall said:

Burrow has been getting killed in the pocket, not as a runner. Two different things, IMO. 

Same result though, right? That's kinda what I'm trying to ask - if one gets hit in the pocket and the other takes hits while running, they both lead to the same result.

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

7 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Yeah clearly doesn't watch.

 

Even if he did I wouldn't trust him to be objective, the guy is infatuated with Jackson. 

 

 

Maybe debate me based on my point rather than the fact that I like Lamar.. it’s better for discussion. For instance I didn’t mention that me as a ravens fan should be any less biased than a Bengals fan responding to me? Lol 

 

 

Edit - maybe we should just not talk injuries while it’s fresh for Joe Burrow. Too hot button right now 

Edited November 24, 2020 by ThatJaxxenGuy

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

7 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Doesn't this have more to do with the Front office than him?

Could be, some guys also seem to know how to protect them self no matter how bad the O line is 

[VanS]

5 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Same result though, right? That's kinda what I'm trying to ask - if one gets hit in the pocket and the other takes hits while running, they both lead to the same result.

Getting hit while running is actually better cause you can defend yourself better by bracing for impact.  Getting in the pocket is more dangerous cause you are stationery while the defender has momentum. 

[Mr Bad Example]

On 11/23/2020 at 4:54 PM, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Here's an honest question - is it different to knock Joe Burrow for getting injured after taking a million hits before Lamar, considering the narrative around Lamar is always "he's going to get injured running like that!"?

I don't know that I'd "knock Burrow" for it, as much as point out that a football field is a dangerous place; I think a running QB who avoids big hits is probably not any more or less in danger than a statue in the pocket. 

[Thomas5737]

On 11/23/2020 at 6:17 PM, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

On 11/23/2020 at 6:16 PM, SmittyBacall said:

Burrow has been getting killed in the pocket, not as a runner. Two different things, IMO. 

Same result though, right? That's kinda what I'm trying to ask - if one gets hit in the pocket and the other takes hits while running, they both lead to the same result.

I don't want to speak for anyone but my concern wouldn't be if they were injured it would be how it could affect them once they come back. I think Jackson would struggle if he lost a step because he would somewhat have to start over because defenses would play him differently if they weren't scared of him running. Burrow can also hurt you on the ground but defenses don't have to dedicate nearly as much of their gameplan into that.

Jackson could develop into a great pocket passer who has to face the same defenses that QBs that aren't a huge threat with their legs have to face, it's just sort of a question mark. Obviously he does have occasional accuracy issues that may show up more in that case, especially if he has to get nervous about being in the pocket. Burrow is less of a question mark as far as being in the pocket facing a standard defense. Who knows what defenses will find out about him and if he can adjust to the adjustments they make that makes him a question mark also.

I'd take Lamar and hope. I certainly understand both sides though.

I think the Ravens need to go power run game, I'm a Dobbins fan but the personnel the defense would have to send out there to defend the power run game helps Lamar as a runner and a passer. I'd probably make Gus Edwards my #1 back. Not complaining though, defenses have been able to contain Jackson as a runner better this year and haven't been quite as scared to pressure him in the pocket.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

9 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

I think the Ravens need to go power run game, I'm a Dobbins fan but the personnel the defense would have to send out there to defend the power run game helps Lamar as a runner and a passer. I'd probably make Gus Edwards my #1 back. Not complaining though, defenses have been able to contain Jackson as a runner better this year and haven't been quite as scared to pressure him in the pocket.

That....already is our scheme?

[ET80]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

That....already is our scheme?

I guess the statement is that JK Dobbins isn't a power RB in the vein of a Gus Edwards.

[Hunter2_1]

On 11/23/2020 at 10:54 PM, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Here's an honest question - is it different to knock Joe Burrow for getting injured after taking a million hits before Lamar, considering the narrative around Lamar is always "he's going to get injured running like that!"?

The narrative that smaller QBs are more injury prone is patently BS.

 

However, Jackson being able to avoid hits like that is certainly in his wheelhouse. I would argue Lamar has a much better OL throughout his career, and it's probable Joe never experience one (considering Cinci's sheer ineptitude in this department for years on years), however. 

With a hit like Joe took - no human would not snap their leg. If lamar had a replica hit, his leg breaks too. It's just you never really catch him being cornered like that because he's like a cat. So yeah, a mark for Lamar.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

17 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I guess the statement is that JK Dobbins isn't a power RB in the vein of a Gus Edwards.

Dobbins is every bit as powerful as Gus is, but he's also got the added bonus of being much more explosive and agile so he can fit into any scheme, whereas Gus is a one-cut downhill runner.

13 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

The narrative that smaller QBs are more injury prone is patently BS.

However, Jackson being able to avoid hits like that is certainly in his wheelhouse. I would argue Lamar has a much better OL throughout his career, and it's probable Joe never experience one (considering Cinci's sheer ineptitude in this department for years on years), however. 

With a hit like Joe took - no human would not snap their leg. If lamar had a replica hit, his leg breaks too. It's just you never really catch him being cornered like that because he's like a cat. So yeah, a mark for Lamar.

Yeah that's kinda the point, Lamar doesn't take those hits because he's not a statue in the pocket and it's hard, if not almost impossible, to get those kinds of hits on him.

[ET80]

3 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Dobbins is every bit as powerful as Gus is, but he's also got the added bonus of being much more explosive and agile so he can fit into any scheme, whereas Gus is a one-cut downhill runner.

*Shrug*

I honestly don't know either way on Dobbins - I really haven't seen much of him, college or pro.

I'd wager that @Thomas5737 is a tOSU fan and has seen Dobbins play at the collegiate level, that's where his assessment comes from.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, ET80 said:

*Shrug*

I honestly don't know either way on Dobbins - I really haven't seen much of him, college or pro.

I'd wager that @Thomas5737 is a tOSU fan and has seen Dobbins play at the collegiate level, that's where his assessment comes from.

I didn't know much about him coming out either, but I can tell you that he looks like a combination of MJD with his pad level and Adrian Peterson with his sheer recklessness of hitting the hole at warp speed. Dude's the real deal, yet Greg Roman refuses to make him the feature back for...whatever reason.