Week 10 Prospect Talk

[m haynes]

15 hours ago, DirtyDez said:

 

I didn't like that play I thought he bailed from the pocket to soon. You are spot on he's impressive.

[m haynes]

14 hours ago, grizmo78 said:

I'll be that guy. Throw was fantastic, but he constantly is drifting backwards creating pressure for himself, and rather than step up in a clean pocket, bails. While this play shows his arm talent and accuracy, it has some negatives as well. 

100% agree.

[m haynes]

12 minutes ago, rcpbawler said:

I don't see enough people talking about Javonte Williams on here.

 

Coming into the season, I had Etienne at 1 with Najee right behind him, especially the way he ended the year. Najee has looked great this year and maybe even better than Etienne (who has been good in his own right) if I were to rank them, but I genuinely think Javonte is right there with them. The dude just never goes down on first contact, will not go get taken down in one on one situations, can catch well out of the backfield, and has a nose for the end zone.

Thanks for the tip. He's the runner I like the, 4 yarder everytime. Reminds me of Cory Dillon

Edited November 7, 2020 by m haynes

[jrry32]

Kyle Pitts is a superstar. Reminds me of Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates. Isn't an elite YAC guy like the top TEs today (Kittle and Kelce), but he is a phenomenal athlete who catches everything.

[Blue]

Everybody loving on Zach Wilson...he hasn't played anybody. Teams are going to go back to his 2019 season where he was 2-2 against Power 5 opponents, and both wins were in OT. He might go first round, but he's a guy with one year of genuinely good tape who didn't play high-level opponents in a weird year. He probably settles in as QB3, if he comes out at all, by virtue of the fact that Trey Lance has all that working against him too and barely played this season.

[.Buzz]

38 minutes ago, Blue said:

Everybody loving on Zach Wilson...he hasn't played anybody. Teams are going to go back to his 2019 season where he was 2-2 against Power 5 opponents, and both wins were in OT. He might go first round, but he's a guy with one year of genuinely good tape who didn't play high-level opponents in a weird year. He probably settles in as QB3, if he comes out at all, by virtue of the fact that Trey Lance has all that working against him too and barely played this season.

The guy had shoulder surgery and hand surgery last year...

Not crazy to assume that, along with natural progression/development, probably has played a part in improved play. Most of the people clamoring for Wilson right now are doing so based on the easily seen arm talent and physical ability rather than just thrashing on bad teams and putting up gaudy stats.

Going to assume you aren't a Lance fan if we're going to knock his competition he plays against as well?

[Blue]

14 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

The guy had shoulder surgery and hand surgery last year...

Not crazy to assume that, along with natural progression/development, probably has played a part in improved play. Most of the people clamoring for Wilson right now are doing so based on the easily seen arm talent and physical ability rather than just thrashing on bad teams and putting up gaudy stats.

Going to assume you aren't a Lance fan if we're going to knock his competition he plays against as well?

That's a potential negative for Wilson depending on how his medicals go.

All I'm saying is that there are plenty of guys who have looked like stars against poor competition, then wilted against the big boys. I'm actually a big fan of Lance, but I'm also trying to be realistic about the fact that Fields is a much more proven commodity in terms of playing against NFL caliber athletes (I'm actually a very big Fields doubter).

[Nick_gb]

On 11/6/2020 at 11:38 PM, .Buzz said:

Not sure who's saying every play (this play even) he makes is perfect. 

Point is, he's got a lot of qualities you look for in today's NFL. The arm talent is indeed "special" from everything I've seen this year. Guys like this go high in the draft, deservedly so. That's the whole point. He's 20/21 years old...there's a ton to like here.

Not to mention the things people are picking apart are all 100% coachable - That Arm talent though? That's god given ability.

[.Buzz]

6 hours ago, Blue said:

That's a potential negative for Wilson depending on how his medicals go.

All I'm saying is that there are plenty of guys who have looked like stars against poor competition, then wilted against the big boys. I'm actually a big fan of Lance, but I'm also trying to be realistic about the fact that Fields is a much more proven commodity in terms of playing against NFL caliber athletes (I'm actually a very big Fields doubter).

Never said it was a "positive". I'm just giving an explanation as to why there was likely a jump in his play. You seemed to attribute it just to playing bad teams.

I get what your saying, obviously I'd prefer he was somewhere in the SEC or something showing it against the big boys but I'm not going to disregard him as a legit top end prospect in this class because of it. As I said, the tools are all there. 

49 minutes ago, Nick_gb said:

Not to mention the things people are picking apart are all 100% coachable - That Arm talent though? That's god given ability.

Exactly.

[Blue]

1 hour ago, .Buzz said:

Never said it was a "positive". I'm just giving an explanation as to why there was likely a jump in his play. You seemed to attribute it just to playing bad teams.

I get what your saying, obviously I'd prefer he was somewhere in the SEC or something showing it against the big boys but I'm not going to disregard him as a legit top end prospect in this class because of it. As I said, the tools are all there.

Wasn't saying it was definitely a negative, either, nor did I suggest these are all "bad" teams. I'm saying that they're less talented than the teams Justin Fields and others are playing against. Of course he looks good against Louisiana Tech. That's not as impressive as looking good against Michigan or Penn State (albeit those teams do look like bad teams this year).

There's a decent chance Wilson is QB2 on my own board, I haven't seen enough of him to make a judgment there yet (if he even declares this year). But for reasons totally beyond Zach Wilson's control, there is virtually zero chance he goes ahead of Justin Fields in April. I suppose BYU could go unbeaten, sneak into the playoff, and win it all, but I think that's unlikely and there's a small chance Wilson may not even play in a lower-level bowl game depending on how his draft stock is looking at the time.

[.Buzz]

2 hours ago, Blue said:

Wasn't saying it was definitely a negative, either, nor did I suggest these are all "bad" teams. I'm saying that they're less talented than the teams Justin Fields and others are playing against. Of course he looks good against Louisiana Tech. That's not as impressive as looking good against Michigan or Penn State (albeit those teams do look like bad teams this year).

There's a decent chance Wilson is QB2 on my own board, I haven't seen enough of him to make a judgment there yet (if he even declares this year). But for reasons totally beyond Zach Wilson's control, there is virtually zero chance he goes ahead of Justin Fields in April. I suppose BYU could go unbeaten, sneak into the playoff, and win it all, but I think that's unlikely and there's a small chance Wilson may not even play in a lower-level bowl game depending on how his draft stock is looking at the time.

I am well aware that playing well against Louisiana Tech means less than Penn State.

I also am well aware that he likely won't be viewed as QB2, nor have I suggested he should. I said of he continues on this trajectory he could push for QB2. But his play, regardless of opponent, is very evident that his arm is going to play at the next level barring injury and some of the things hes doing is not something you see often. Which is why if he continues on this trajectory and passes medical tests leading up to the draft, he's a top 5-10 pick imo.

Also:

 

[Blue]

49 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

I am well aware that playing well against Louisiana Tech means less than Penn State.

I also am well aware that he likely won't be viewed as QB2, nor have I suggested he should. I said of he continues on this trajectory he could push for QB2. But his play, regardless of opponent, is very evident that his arm is going to play at the next level barring injury and some of the things hes doing is not something you see often. Which is why if he continues on this trajectory and passes medical tests leading up to the draft, he's a top 5-10 pick imo.

Also:

 

He's not pushing for QB2 unless teams share my opinion that Fields plays in a garbage offense that doesn't translate to the NFL (plausible given Dwayne Haskins' draft-day fall and subsequent failure in Washington). You're talking about a guy with one year of production in the Mountain West conference vs. a two-year starter for one of the top teams in the country likely taking said team to the playoffs two years in a row. I don't understand why that's a controversial observation to make, but I guess it is.

[.Buzz]

4 minutes ago, Blue said:

He's not pushing for QB2 unless teams share my opinion that Fields plays in a garbage offense that doesn't translate to the NFL (plausible given Dwayne Haskins' draft-day fall and subsequent failure in Washington). You're talking about a guy with one year of production in the Mountain West conference vs. a two-year starter for one of the top teams in the country likely taking said team to the playoffs two years in a row. I don't understand why that's a controversial observation to make, but I guess it is.

Daniel Jeremiah went on record saying he had Trey Lance arguably over Lawrence as QB1 in August. Mitch Trubisky went over Deshaun Watson back a few years ago, etc.

Acting like it's inconceivable a guy like Wilson that is lighting it up and showing high end traits that are valued highly at the next level can't be taken over Fields is interesting. I'm not even saying I agree with it or I would myself, but there's a conversation if this continues.

[Blue]

1 minute ago, .Buzz said:

Daniel Jeremiah went on record saying he had Trey Lance arguably over Lawrence as QB1 in August.

I'm going to stop you right there because that was an attention grab and everybody knew it. Anybody with eyes knows Lawrence is the best QB prospect of the past 15 years at least, and yes I'm including Andrew Luck in that.

I'm not "acting like it's inconceivable." I literally pointed out a reasonable explanation for why he would jump Fields. I don't see it happening for a lot of very good reasons.

[.Buzz]

13 minutes ago, Blue said:

I'm going to stop you right there because that was an attention grab and everybody knew it. Anybody with eyes knows Lawrence is the best QB prospect of the past 15 years at least, and yes I'm including Andrew Luck in that.

I'm not "acting like it's inconceivable." I literally pointed out a reasonable explanation for why he would jump Fields. I don't see it happening for a lot of very good reasons.

Even if it was, there's been plenty of people I've seen have Lance right up there if not above Fields prior to the season too. That seems, at this point, more crazy than Wilson jumping up there.

I don't either. I've said as much in this thread, so I'm not even sure where this has been going outside of me saying there may be a "discussion" come draft time.