2021 Head Coaching Prospects

[WindyCity]

23 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

For all the failures, the Bears haven't really behaved in stereotypical "Bearsy" ways over the last decade or so. They paid multiple coaches and GMs at the same time, they spent a ton of discretionary $ on facilities. They're not being cheap or old school, they've just made a bunch of moves that didn't work out.  If the QB had hit everything changes;  more wins in 2018, better offense in 19 and 20, who knows how far they go?  Pace would look like a genius and we'd never be talking about Grasu or Burton. Nagy might have developed into a good play caller with a QB that doesn't give him jitters.  I give Pace a lot of credit for his moves, but he missed when it wasn't an option to miss. 

Other than hiring bad people it has been a little different.

[G08]

Maybe I am wrong, but here's my logic:

If the Nagy-led Chicago Bears go 8-8 this season, he will have amassed 28 wins in his first three seasons.

Sean McVay (33 wins)
John Harbaugh (32 wins)
Andy Reid with Chiefs (31 wins)
Mike Tomlin (31 wins)
Mike Vrabel (26 wins with 5 to go)
Frank Reich (24 wins with 5 to go)
MATT NAGY (28 wins)
Pete Carroll with Patriots (27 wins)
Andy Reid with Eagles (27 wins)
Mike Zimmer (26 wins)
Pete Carroll with Seahawks (25 wins)
Sean Payton (25 wins)
Sean McDermott (25 wins)
Kyle Shanahan (23 wins)

Just something to think about. Looking at the similarities between the Eagles and us, it's painfully obvious that you need an elite offensive line for this system to work AND a QB that has experience in a pro style offense. We don't have the former and Mitch Trubisky isn't the latter.

So, what's the fix? Gut the tackles, draft an LT early and take a long look at Ifedi on the outside before looking again in the draft or free agency. I like Mustipher at C thus far, so I'd be good with Daniels at LG and Whitehair at RG moving forward (or vice-versa, who gives a ****).

They get one more shot and if they flop, both are gone after 2021. No, I don't love this idea BUT if I was in charge of these operations and had the mandate to cut spending while giving the team one more "fighting chance" next season, this would be it. Roll with Foles but protect the **** out of him.

Edited December 2, 2020 by G08

[topwop1]

8 minutes ago, G08 said:

Maybe I am wrong, but here's my logic:

If the Nagy-led Chicago Bears go 8-8 this season, he will have amassed 28 wins in his first three seasons.

Sean McVay (33 wins)
John Harbaugh (32 wins)
Andy Reid with Chiefs (31 wins)
Mike Tomlin (31 wins)
Mike Vrabel (26 wins with 5 to go)
Frank Reich (24 wins with 5 to go)
MATT NAGY (28 wins)
Pete Carroll with Patriots (27 wins)
Andy Reid with Eagles (27 wins)
Mike Zimmer (26 wins)
Pete Carroll with Seahawks (25 wins)
Sean Payton (25 wins)
Sean McDermott (25 wins)
Kyle Shanahan (23 wins)

Just something to think about. Looking at the similarities between the Eagles and us, it's painfully obvious that you need an elite offensive line for this system to work AND a QB that has experience in a pro style offense. We don't have the former and Mitch Trubisky isn't the latter.

So, what's the fix? Gut the tackles, draft an LT early and take a long look at Ifedi on the outside before looking again in the draft or free agency. I like Mustipher at C thus far, so I'd be good with Daniels at LG and Whitehair at RG moving forward (or vice-versa, who gives a ****).

They get one more shot and if they flop, both are gone after 2021. No, I don't love this idea BUT if I was in charge of these operations and had the mandate to cut spending while giving the team one more "fighting chance" next season, this would be it. Roll with Foles but protect the **** out of him.

I know it's hard to win in the NFL but a lot of Nagy's wins are deceiving.  It's kind of like the argument for judging a QB on wins and losses.  It's not a good metric for success.

The problem is how are you going to cut spending and still field a competitive team in 2021?  Drafting an LT early is nice in theory but if the Bears finish 8-8 they likely aren't getting one of the elite tackles in this class.  So then what?  They will have to spend big in FA to sign a good OL.  How do you do that?  Well you have to cut from somewhere else right?  Likely means losing Fuller or Hicks on D.  Then who replaces those guys?

I don't know about you but after seeing Hicks out the other night and how much this D struggled I think a legit claim can be made that he is the MVP of this D.

There are a lot of IF's in your scenario. You are bringing back a desperate GM and HC in a win or else mandate.  That's usually not a good recipe for success and may even hurt the team further into the future.

We are talking about salvaging something that isn't really there.  Time to blow it up.

[G08]

23 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

I know it's hard to win in the NFL but a lot of Nagy's wins are deceiving.  It's kind of like the argument for judging a QB on wins and losses.  It's not a good metric for success.

The problem is how are you going to cut spending and still field a competitive team in 2021?  Drafting an LT early is nice in theory but if the Bears finish 8-8 they likely aren't getting one of the elite tackles in this class.  So then what?  They will have to spend big in FA to sign a good OL.  How do you do that?  Well you have to cut from somewhere else right?  Likely means losing Fuller or Hicks on D.  Then who replaces those guys?

I don't know about you but after seeing Hicks out the other night and how much this D struggled I think a legit claim can be made that he is the MVP of this D.

There are a lot of IF's in your scenario. You are bringing back a desperate GM and HC in a win or else mandate.  That's usually not a good recipe for success and may even hurt the team further into the future.

We are talking about salvaging something that isn't really there.  Time to blow it up.

Wins and losses are the only thing that matter in the NFL. At the end of the day that is how coaches and QBs are judged (of course championships as well).

 

Extend Fuller and spread out his cap hit, think about doing the same with Hicks or you have to cut him. Cut Leno and Massie. Those moves alone get our cap number up to around $24 million.

[G08]

Maybe I'm wrong but I think if we finish 8-8 or even fall ***-backwards into the playoffs at 9-7, a lot of you are going to be sorely disappointed.

[Orange&Blue]

8 minutes ago, G08 said:

Maybe I'm wrong but I think if we finish 8-8 or even fall ***-backwards into the playoffs at 9-7, a lot of you are going to be sorely disappointed.

If that happens, it would indicate that the team hasn't quit and the coaching staff had them ready to compete effectively. I think most would be pleasantly surprised if that happened, but we aren't holding our breath. 

 

I'd be interested in folks' answers to the following:  Matt Nagy does ______ better than his average peer. 

[G08]

5 minutes ago, Orange&Blue said:

If that happens, it would indicate that the team hasn't quit and the coaching staff had them ready to compete effectively. I think most would be pleasantly surprised if that happened, but we aren't holding our breath. 

 

I'd be interested in folks' answers to the following:  Matt Nagy does ______ better than his average peer. 

Most Bears fans would be upset, but you can gauge the room here once they respond.

[WindyCity]

It really isn't about where we have been with Nagy. It is about where we are going.

We are trending down hard.

He has shown no ability to stop the crash landing and he cannot hang on to a 12-4 season from 3 years ago.

[G08]

13 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

It really isn't about where we have been with Nagy. It is about where we are going.

We are trending down hard.

He has shown no ability to stop the crash landing and he cannot hang on to a 12-4 season from 3 years ago.

For argument's sake, Doug Pederson won a freaking Super Bowl and is going through the exact same problems in Phillly.

What changed there?

[41st ward Chicagoian]

@G08 I just don’t see the bears getting to 8 and 8 

the games against the lions and Vikings I would put as toss ups, the will lose against the Texans and packers.  They should be favorites in the game against Jax. 

As for the record argument compared to his peers. I could care less.  Nagy was brought into fix the offense and his teams average less than 20 points a game.  < 20 points a game = failure = fired.  

[topwop1]

9 minutes ago, 41st ward Chicagoian said:

@G08 I just don’t see the bears getting to 8 and 8 

the games against the lions and Vikings I would put as toss ups, the will lose against the Texans and packers.  They should be favorites in the game against Jax. 

As for the record argument compared to his peers. I could care less.  Nagy was brought into fix the offense and his teams average less than 20 points a game.  < 20 points a game = failure = fired.  

This is more or less where I'm at. 

I'm confident in saying that we could still have John Fox coaching and he would have netted probably the same results as Nagy has with this team.

Nagy was brought in to do a cpl things. Make the offense good and develop Trubisky. Those two things go hand in hand but then Nagy got his QB in Foles and still suckes so why exactly  should he get another opportunity?

 

 

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, G08 said:

Maybe I'm wrong but I think if we finish 8-8 or even fall ***-backwards into the playoffs at 9-7, a lot of you are going to be sorely disappointed.

100%. This regime is not capable of building and coaching an offense good enough for us to compete in the playoffs.

I choose surgery [regime change] over limping along in the middle ground.

Edited December 2, 2020 by WindyCity

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, G08 said:

For argument's sake, Doug Pederson won a freaking Super Bowl and is going through the exact same problems in Phillly.

What changed there?

His personnel is injured and bad.

And Pederson has a high peak so you will live through the down right now.

Nagy has no peak. He was carried to a 12-4 record by the defense and as soon as his offense needed to score in the playoffs they fell flat on their face.

[Nads786]

2 hours ago, G08 said:

For argument's sake, Doug Pederson won a freaking Super Bowl and is going through the exact same problems in Phillly.

What changed there?

This is a great counter point. I think Wentz is probably not nearly as good as people expected and his line has gotten worse. I think perhaps this offense is too complex to run for most QBs. I really don't have a good answer but would be interesting hearing other opinions on this.

Wentz looks awful too.

[G08]

43 minutes ago, Nads786 said:

This is a great counter point. I think Wentz is probably not nearly as good as people expected and his line has gotten worse. I think perhaps this offense is too complex to run for most QBs. I really don't have a good answer but would be interesting hearing other opinions on this.

Wentz looks awful too.

You need an elite offensive line and a QB well versed in a pro style system. Not easy things to accomplish, which is why I've always been a huge proponent of what Kyle Shanahan is doing in San Fran.