topwop1 Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, abstract_thought said: I don't trust Pace to build a great team. Being a great GM is about managing the overall roster, not individual moves. Pace's failures aren't in individual transactions. He fails to adequately manage all of his resources to build the team properly. Ya...I'm starting to realize that Pace isn't very adept at obtaining value in draft picks or player contracts. This past offseason of moves is looking like a distaster for future years with both Trevethan and Quinn still due a lot of guaranteed money for years to come. Also the 4th rounder he inexplicably traded for Foles is bad...very bad. That could have been used on some OL help. I wouldn't have even given up a 7th for Foles knowing what we know now. I just remember when the Bears had one for the best cap situations for years under JA and Cliff Stein. Angelo may have not been the best drafter of talent but he did a fair job of not putting the team in bind when it came to future assets. I can't believe I am praising Jerry Angelo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nads786 Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Ya...I'm starting to realize that Pace isn't very adept at obtaining value in draft picks or player contracts. This past offseason of moves is looking like a distaster for future years with both Trevethan and Quinn still due a lot of guaranteed money for years to come. Also the 4th rounder he inexplicably traded for Foles is bad...very bad. That could have been used on some OL help. I wouldn't have even given up a 7th for Foles knowing what we know now. I just remember when the Bears had one for the best cap situations for years under JA and Cliff Stein. Angelo may have not been the best drafter of talent but he did a fair job of not putting the team in bind when it came to future assets. I can't believe I am praising Jerry Angelo. Angelo did get us to the Superbowl and gave us a pretty solid coach in Lovie. He drafted some really good players as well. He just screwed up the offense and could not solve the QB issue. His biggest mistake was taking Cedric Benson over Rogers IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 4 hours ago, topwop1 said: This past offseason of moves is looking like a distaster for future years with both Trevethan and Quinn still due a lot of guaranteed money for years to come. Quinn was a solid signing. Is it one of those things that inexplicably go wrong, down the road? Maybe. But we're certainly not there yet. Trevathan has come around after a slow start, but the question does remain...how much money do you really want to spend on one side of the ball? 4 hours ago, topwop1 said: Also the 4th rounder he inexplicably traded for Foles is bad...very bad. That could have been used on some OL help. I wouldn't have even given up a 7th for Foles knowing what we know now. Fourth rounder was the going rate, so, since Pace was incapable of making a more strident move towards supplanting Trubisky--it had to be done. My thoughts on the last Bears draft are well known around here. It was very, very, bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 20 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: Quinn was a solid signing. Is it one of those things that inexplicably go wrong, down the road? Maybe. But we're certainly not there yet. Trevathan has come around after a slow start, but the question does remain...how much money do you really want to spend on one side of the ball? Fourth rounder was the going rate, so, since Pace was incapable of making a more strident move towards supplanting Trubisky--it had to be done. My thoughts on the last Bears draft are well known around here. It was very, very, bad. I don't know man...I think Pace could have waited it out a bit longer and got Foles for a later pick. Who were Bears really competing against that they needed to give up so high of a pick? The Jags desperately wanted to rid themselves of Foles and that bad contract. I don't agree with you on the draft. I think JJ is a stud at CB and Bears got a player there. Mooney also looks like a really nice find. Not sure what to think of Kmet just but he has skill and potential to be good. TEs usually take a couple years to really find their groove in this league. The other picks were pretty blah I'll give you that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 On 11/17/2020 at 5:14 PM, Epyon said: I'd be on the lookout for collegiate coaches that may be more inclined to make the jump up to the NFL than before, given how Covid is crippling college $$ even harder than NFL $$ right now. I can't say I have any particular prospects that stand out, however. One potential from the NFL I'm actually interested in is Rams DC (and our former position coach) Staley.... He's done a pretty great job with the Rams defense this year, and would be able to keep the defense more intact, since I'd imagine Pagano is going to be collateral damage w/ Pace and Nagy getting the boot. OC wise, I'd honestly go right back to collegiate coaches. Their offenses get labeled as gimmicky, but they are in many ways, 5-10 years ahead of the NFL trends. Personally, I want the TYPE of coach more like Chip Kelly or Mark Helfrich running the offense..... NOW TO BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, I'm NOT saying that either of those would be my choice, just that they are the type of "extremely aggressive" offensive minded people who had overwhelming collegiate success I'd be looking for. They in particular failed at the NFL level for differing reasons (Kelly's offense was too simplistic, and relied too heavily on a QB being a running threat, which is ironic because he had Nick Foles under center), and Helfrich honestly had a really unfair shot being involved under Nagy with our atrocious roster last year, but also failed because his variation of Kelly's offense was too pass happy, too "on paper"/meticulous (a problem Nagy shares), and he didn't/doesn't actually call plays himself. TL:DR Find me an OC who has a proven record of stacking 40+ points a game in college, can actually execute a hurry up offense, can actually hot read/run a play when you know you're going to catch the other team not yet lined up/ want to prevent them from challenging the previous play, and who never takes their foot off the gas. Pair Trask with Florida's OC Brian Johnson then. Boom. That's a hell of a jump but Mullen has endorsed Johnson too it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 7 hours ago, topwop1 said: If Pace is still here then you never know. They both worked in NO together. 7 hours ago, Madmike90 said: I don't see why he would be instantly ruled out. Wasn't Campbell the coach in Miami when the bullying stuff was going on and even was accused of being in the middle of it? Or am I thinking of someone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 1 hour ago, topwop1 said: I don't agree with you on the draft. I think JJ is a stud at CB and Bears got a player there. Mooney also looks like a really nice find. Not sure what to think of Kmet just but he has skill and potential to be good. TEs usually take a couple years to really find their groove in this league. The other picks were pretty blah I'll give you that. It's all a matter of perspective. Johnson looks like he could be a Pro Bowl guy, maybe perennially, from here on out. But we already had Fuller. See what I'm saying? Kmet may turn out to be good, sure, and I even said that at the time...but he's not a plug and play TE, and there's absolutely nothing on his college resume that indicates he will ever really excel at ANYTHING a TE is expected to do. I like Mooney, I like the Trevis Gipson pick (although why he doesn't play much is another Nagy head-scratcher), but that doesn't change anything, really. I'll repeat what I was harping on at the time of the draft. BEST OPTION--Trade up for Jordan Love, let everything else sort itself out. NEXT OPTION--Take the best offensive lineman and the best WR (Mims or Claypool). Strongly consider Eason instead of either. Do you really think the Bears would be in worse shape had I been the GM of that draft? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBears019 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 1 hour ago, beardown3231 said: Wasn't Campbell the coach in Miami when the bullying stuff was going on and even was accused of being in the middle of it? Or am I thinking of someone else? The Jonathan Martin bullying thing with Ricky Ingognito? That was a few years before Campbell was interim HC with Miami iirc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 We are there with Quinn. The contract is a turd grenade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 14 minutes ago, WindyCity said: We are there with Quinn. The contract is a turd grenade. The preferred term is turdnado, because it has been a ****storm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Nagy is like the beloved gym teacher who is trying to teach AP calculus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Heinz D. said: It's all a matter of perspective. Johnson looks like he could be a Pro Bowl guy, maybe perennially, from here on out. But we already had Fuller. See what I'm saying? Kmet may turn out to be good, sure, and I even said that at the time...but he's not a plug and play TE, and there's absolutely nothing on his college resume that indicates he will ever really excel at ANYTHING a TE is expected to do. I like Mooney, I like the Trevis Gipson pick (although why he doesn't play much is another Nagy head-scratcher), but that doesn't change anything, really. I'll repeat what I was harping on at the time of the draft. BEST OPTION--Trade up for Jordan Love, let everything else sort itself out. NEXT OPTION--Take the best offensive lineman and the best WR (Mims or Claypool). Strongly consider Eason instead of either. Do you really think the Bears would be in worse shape had I been the GM of that draft? When i did the real time draft I was doubling down with Claypool and Mims then OL heavy for a large part. I wasnt a huge fan of Love but would have been fine with him. Part of the reason is because he needs coaches up a lot and I had (and still have) no faith on Nagy to be able to do that without Reid. That being said my biggest issue is his refusal to go after OTs early. Wtf? I know Castillo had them looking improved but it was still an underwhelming OL. Edited November 20, 2020 by Sugashane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Nagy is like the beloved gym teacher who is trying to teach AP calculus. "I didnt come here to run the I-formation or teach derivatives!" - Nagy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 8 hours ago, Sugashane said: "I didnt come here to run the I-formation or teach derivatives!" - Nagy He came here to clap and high five the defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, WindyCity said: He came here to clap and high five the defense. Don't forget sprint down the sidelines when Patterson has a long return! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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