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MikeT14

Alex Smith is the starter moving forward

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On 11/11/2020 at 10:08 AM, naptownskinsfan said:

I've sat on this for the better part of a week.  

What's changed?  Absolutely nothing.  We have two wins, which is more than we had since Kyle Allen started.  Despite Alex Smith putting up yards against a terrible defense, we still lost the game.  I mean, Dwayne Haskins puts up yards against a good defense and he gets benched, so I haven't got a clue what's going on.  

Haskins had to have done something so bad that it's not being leaked.  Which is odd considering how many leaks this organization actually has.  Because if we are benching him because he was happy about putting up 300 yards against the Ravens, well, the incompetence has not left this organization.  

We know why Haskins git benched, it was 5 fold. 

1. He wasnt preparing like a pro QB should - he wasn't putting in the extra work - Gruden more or less said the same thing which is a big reason he didn't want him.

2. After the Ravens loss he gloated to the HC about his statline when asked why he was dancing to music and celebrationg after a loss - not something a starting QB or captain should ever do. And he failed to make plays and missed some open receivers when Rivera gave him the chance to - even on 4th and goal.

3. He got a friend aroom at the team hotel the night before a game which was again poor judgement/no common sense and he got fined for it.

4. He wasn't learning the whole offense - just like under Gruden bc he wasn't putting extra work in and that was limiting the offenses potential and Rivera couldn't then evaluate the skill position players in the whole offense.

5. He was Inaccurate, had poor footwork and poor pocket presence at times and that caused him to miss throws he should make which hurt the offense bc the passing game was inconsistent under him.

JP Finlay said the coaches knew Alex was the best QB they had since August practices but they wanted to give the young guys a chance and Alex had to get cleared and they weren't sure if he could stay healthy after hits. I realize a lot of people don't like Alex Smith as our starting QB especially at his age now, coming off his injury and bc he's not along term answer but only a blind man would not see that our passing offense looked better with Alex as it's QB last game. That was the best our passing offense looked all year.

Edited by turtle28

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Another reason I guess Rivera went with Alex: Dwayne has the worst PFF rating. 

(also don't look at the #2 LT)

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2 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

Another reason I guess Rivera went with Alex: Dwayne has the worst PFF rating. 

(also don't look at the #2 LT)

I’m always thrown off a bit by these ratings. When I look at production, I see that Haskins was more productive in passing yards than Allen but Allen was more comfortable in the offense and more accurate. 
 

I mean you can’t just ignore that Haskins was on pace for a 61%, 3700 yard, 16 plus TD season in his first year as a starter.

As Rivera has eluded to, there is something there to be developed but it’s going to take time. I’d rather see Haskins develop as he plays in games rather than develop just in practice, in meeting rooms, hopefully through osmosis and as he watches Alex play & execute the offense but that’s just me, I know a lot of people don’t agree with the trial by fire method but I’ve come around on it and thinks not only does it work but it builds character and shows how a player can bounce back from negative plays and bad games to improve from one week to the next as it seemed Haskins had done from the Browns game to the Ravens game.

Edited by turtle28

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2 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I mean you can’t just ignore that Haskins was on pace for a 61%, 3700 yard, 16 plus TD season in his first year as a starter.

No. You're right. And then I get pissed when I see what Murray, Burrow and Herbert are on pace for, and I wish I could ignore it. 

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3 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

No. You're right. And then I get pissed when I see what Murray, Burrow and Herbert are on pace for, and I wish I could ignore it. 

Look, I’d love to have them, but we didn’t have the #1 pick and with Herbert, no one really saw that coming. A lot of teams soured on him bc I heard on NFL Live that he is an introvert and teams didn’t think and introvert could be a successful QB and team leader, that’s one of the reasons he didn’t go top 5. 
 

Also, look at the receiving talent around Murray, Burrow and Herbert. I’d love to see Haskins or any of our QBs with their #4 option being John Ross a speedster and former 1st round pick who Cincy doesn’t even play bc they have AJ Green, Tee Higgins & Tyler Boyd. I’d love to see our QBs be able to throw to Keenan Allen, Mike Williams and Hunter Henry or DHop, Larry Fitzgerald and Christian Kirk but instead besides Terry our guys get jags and the coaches, media and fans blame the QBs.

I mean come on... let’s call spade a spade here.

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1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

Look, I’d love to have them, but we didn’t have the #1 pick and with Herbert, no one really saw that coming. A lot of teams soured on him bc I heard on NFL Live that he is an introvert and teams didn’t think and introvert could be a successful QB and team leader, that’s one of the reasons he didn’t go top 5. 
 

Also introverts: Kyler Murray, Joe Flacco, Mariota. Not sure that affects draft position that much. 

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

Also, look at the receiving talent around Murray, Burrow and Herbert. I’d love to see Haskins or any of our QBs with their #4 option being John Ross a speedster and former 1st round pick who Cincy doesn’t even play bc they have AJ Green, Tee Higgins & Tyler Boyd.

lol you wanna call a spade a spade and then try and sell me John Ross because he's a (crappy) #4. Okay. 

Yes, they have more talent at the receiving position, but don't take away from the success they are having because it seems they are just better QBs.

I was on Dwayne's side when he got benched, but am coming around that he's also his own problem as much as Rivera's wishy washy takes, and I am more than ready to move on now from someone that won't be successful in the NFL.

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43 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Also introverts: Kyler Murray, Joe Flacco, Mariota. Not sure that affects draft position that much. 

lol you wanna call a spade a spade and then try and sell me John Ross because he's a (crappy) #4. Okay. 

Yes, they have more talent at the receiving position, but don't take away from the success they are having because it seems they are just better QBs.

I was on Dwayne's side when he got benched, but am coming around that he's also his own problem as much as Rivera's wishy washy takes, and I am more than ready to move on now from someone that won't be successful in the NFL.

Maybe the introvert thing doesn’t affect draft position as much but there were rumblings during the draft process/interview process two years ago that teams had an issue with Murray bc of it too. So, two years in a row some teams were worried about Murray & Herbert being introverts - that seems to be like somewhat of a trend and could have always been an issue forever with teams we just never heard much about it in the press.

I’m with your take on Dwayne but, I still think he should be playing through this development this year. 
 

I’m not trying to take away from anyone’s success, just pointing out that the talent around Burrow, Murray and Herbert - amongst others reasons - is one reason for their success as young QBs.


Actually we have no clue what John Ross is bc he’s been hurt most of his career and then when he gets healthy Cincy draft Higgins.  I hope we sign him to a one year deal in March to see what he has. I’d still sign a definite #2 if Cam Sims doesn’t ball out the final 8 games to be opposite Terry but I’d also give John Ross a chance.

Edited by turtle28

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18 hours ago, turtle28 said:

John Beck was not starter worthy, Alex has been a starter in the league since 2005 or 2006. That's not a good comparison.

Its actually a very accurate comparison. Both John Beck and Alex Smith are at the ends of their respective careers. Neither are starting caliber (neither would start on ANY team other than the dysfunction that is WFT) and both replaced quarterbacks that were selected over them to start. If you want to argue that Alex Smith (right now) is starter worthy, I'll argue that 10/10 times. He is a feel good story for sure, but he is not a starting QB in this league anymore. He wasn't when we traded for him, and he certainly isn't now.

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2 hours ago, Slappy Mc said:

Its actually a very accurate comparison. Both John Beck and Alex Smith are at the ends of their respective careers. Neither are starting caliber (neither would start on ANY team other than the dysfunction that is WFT) and both replaced quarterbacks that were selected over them to start. If you want to argue that Alex Smith (right now) is starter worthy, I'll argue that 10/10 times. He is a feel good story for sure, but he is not a starting QB in this league anymore. He wasn't when we traded for him, and he certainly isn't now.

No, it doesn’t bc Beck was never even #2 worthy again, Alex has been a starter since 2006 except in 2019 & this year as he was working back from his catastrophic broken leg and infection.

I certainly think Alex was starter worthy before he broke his leg, you have to put everything into context when you analyze the Washington 2018 passing offense.

Washington’s #1 WR was PRich who was only #3 worthy when healthy and by everyone’s account they overpaid for him and while I had hoped he had stayed healthy he didn’t.
 

Their top targets were Reed, Crowder (a slot WR) and their 3rd down back Chris Thompson all who battled injuries all year along with PRich. Then we had the enticing physically and underwhelming in everyother way Doctson. Now people can blame Alex all they want for only throwing for 2180 yards in 10 games but who the hell was he throwing to? 
 

When Crowder, Doctson & PRich did play I remember them dropping passes and I remember Crowder also having a fumbling problem.

Remember we had to start Maurice Harris at one point?

When Alex had weapons like in 2017 he had a career year. He was starter worthy. Now, we should’ve never had Alex bc Brice should’ve re-sign Kirk in 2016.  Where Bruce messed up the most besides trading for him after stupidly not re-signing Kirk - was signing Alex to an extension before he had earned in a Washington uniform. If Brice hadn’t re-signed him, Alex wouldn’t be on our roster today or if he was, he wouldn’t be taking up $21 million in cap space.

Edited by turtle28
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11 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

Another reason I guess Rivera went with Alex: Dwayne has the worst PFF rating. 

(also don't look at the #2 LT)

You see who the #2 TE is?  Let’s go get him.

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18 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

Another reason I guess Rivera went with Alex: Dwayne has the worst PFF rating. 

(also don't look at the #2 LT)

How is a guy with two 100-yard receiving outings this year and 4 other games under 60-yards their 4th best receiver in the league? How do you even justify a ranking like that? It’s silly. PFF is just kinda crazy in the way they do things. Half the time it doesn’t make sense. 

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4 hours ago, lavar703 said:

How is a guy with two 100-yard receiving outings this year and 4 other games under 60-yards their 4th best receiver in the league? How do you even justify a ranking like that? It’s silly. PFF is just kinda crazy in the way they do things. Half the time it doesn’t make sense. 

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Not directly Alex related, but I was just thinking about the idea of trading Haskins for a 4th this offseason, which it seems is where this is heading (at best). And really just marveling at the fact that somehow we managed to bungle the Haskins thing so badly that the Cardinals got a late 2nd for a QB who was substantially worse AFTER THEY HAD DRAFTED A REPLACEMENT QB — and we’re still somehow going to get significantly less than that because we just can’t handle anything appropriately and sensibly. 

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33 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Not directly Alex related, but I was just thinking about the idea of trading Haskins for a 4th this offseason, which it seems is where this is heading (at best). And really just marveling at the fact that somehow we managed to bungle the Haskins thing so badly that the Cardinals got a late 2nd for a QB who was substantially worse AFTER THEY HAD DRAFTED A REPLACEMENT QB — and we’re still somehow going to get significantly less than that because we just can’t handle anything appropriately and sensibly. 

We got a 5th and third for the best LT in football. The Texans got more for Duane Brown who wasn’t as good and was older. We got a 5th for our best corner. We got nothing for a QB who went on to sign the highest contract ever at the time. Preston Smith and Crowder? Nadda. We’re really, really bad at this. 

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2 hours ago, lavar703 said:

We got a 5th and third for the best LT in football. The Texans got more for Duane Brown who wasn’t as good and was older. We got a 5th for our best corner. We got nothing for a QB who went on to sign the highest contract ever at the time. Preston Smith and Crowder? Nadda. We’re really, really bad at this. 

Don’t look now but Preston Smith is doing what he did in DC. Have a good/productive year followed up by an average year. He only has 17 tackles, 1 TFL, 4 QB hits and 5 sacks that’s way way less than his production from last year and he’s making his salary look awful this year. I thought we should’ve kept him, but we’ve improved the position w/ the drafting of Sweat and Young so that’s not a biggie to me.

While I love Crowder, the dude can’t stay healthy so the cost of $10 million & 11 million next year for a slot WR who’s always battling and injury hurts his value in my eyes.

I’d re-sign Crowder if the Jets cut him bc they don’t want to pay him $11 million this year or when he’s a free agent in 2022 but I wouldn’t give him anything near the deal he has now. It’d be under $10 mil per year on avg. More in the $5 to 8 mil per year on avg IMO.

Edited by turtle28

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