fluhartz Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, TheVillain112 said: He just loves the attention, and loves to make statements when he plays bad. Marcus Gilbert comes back healthy, Haley realizes he has Le'Veon Bell, they run deep routes for Bryant again, etc... Just a matter of time. I'm not getting my hopes up that they stink all season on offense... exactly.. I love that this thread exists though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 2 hours ago, TheVillain112 said: He just loves the attention, and loves to make statements when he plays bad. Marcus Gilbert comes back healthy, Haley realizes he has Le'Veon Bell, they run deep routes for Bryant again, etc... Just a matter of time. I'm not getting my hopes up that they stink all season on offense... You know Gilbert gets Justin Houston this week, right? J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 The Steelers seem to have a lot of problems. From the differences in how their protest was handled, Bell holding out before the season and Brown making comments, Brown's tantrum a few weeks ago, Big Ben's comments about wanting to not play, etc. All of these things kind of seem to point toward lack of leadership and loss of control - which all points to Mike Tomlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biletnikoff Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 lol, the Steelers are fine. The Steelers are always fine. its week 5 people. Week effing 5. the Steelers will be in the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVillain112 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 On 10/9/2017 at 5:22 PM, onejayhawk said: You know Gilbert gets Justin Houston this week, right? J One of my earlier statements noted that I expect the offense to get back on track around week 8. But if you're looking for Justin Houston praise, yes that guy isn't bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livewire Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 On 10/8/2017 at 8:48 PM, INbengalfan said: They moved up for Big Ben. If they keep the other pieces in place, trade up again. Use the money they aren't using on multiple picks to re-sign key guys. The Steelers never traded up for Roethlisberger. Fortunately he dropped to them at the 11th pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INbengalfan Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 9 hours ago, 1BackInBlackFan said: The Steelers never traded up for Roethlisberger. Fortunately he dropped to them at the 11th pick. My bad. I thought they traded up like 6 spots for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJ Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 On 10/9/2017 at 4:00 PM, TheVillain112 said: I'm not falling for it. He intentionally threw out the 'maybe I don't have it anymore' line. Full drama queen Ben statement. He's going to go ham at some point in the season (or get hurt). I'm not counting him out yet... The drama queen thing is probably accurate here. I expect him to get hit hard this week, so hard the announcers talk about how maybe that's the last time we see Big Ben because surely he won't return this year and he's probably retiring. Only for him to come limping out of the tunnel to dramatic music (the music part is in Ben's head), then lead the offense to 5 straight scoring drives (of course limping the whole time). The Steelers win 11 in a row, win the SB and Ben plays for 10 more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 9 minutes ago, theJ said: The drama queen thing is probably accurate here. I expect him to get hit hard this week, so hard the announcers talk about how maybe that's the last time we see Big Ben because surely he won't return this year and he's probably retiring. Only for him to come limping out of the tunnel to dramatic music (the music part is in Ben's head), then lead the offense to 5 straight scoring drives (of course limping the whole time). The Steelers win 11 in a row, win the SB and Ben plays for 10 more years. yep... he'll get carted off for an arm injury and then come limping out of the tunnel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 On 09/10/2017 at 1:29 AM, OleXmad said: The Jaguars have Blake Bortles at QB and a bad o-line with Allen Hurns as the no.1 WR. I repeat, Blake Nortles at QB. When they don't let noodles throw, they tend to win. 1 pass in the entire second half! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMonarch1110 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I called Big Ben overrated in a thread before the season started and got tons and tons of hate. We will have his good games, but I'm expecting plenty more turds of games this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, TheMonarch1110 said: I called Big Ben overrated in a thread before the season started and got tons and tons of hate. We will have his good games, but I'm expecting plenty more turds of games this season. There are people who call something overrated and provide objective logic to support their stance....and then there are haters that just call something overrated just to hate, without being able to support why they feel that way. If you got that much hate for it, Im willing to bet you fell into the latter category. Ben is overrated depending who you talk to, but using his poor start to the season to support your stance is just ridiculous. The last time he played this bad for a stretch was 2006 coming off his motorcycle accident. He took a step back last year after losing his deep threats, but he wasnt playing anywhere close to how he has played this season thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMonarch1110 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: There are people who call something overrated and provide objective logic to support their stance....and then there are haters that just call something overrated just to hate, without being able to support why they feel that way. If you got that much hate for it, Im willing to bet you fell into the latter category. Ben is overrated depending who you talk to, but using his poor start to the season to support your stance is just ridiculous. The last time he played this bad for a stretch was 2006 coming off his motorcycle accident. He took a step back last year after losing his deep threats, but he wasnt playing anywhere close to how he has played this season thus far. I didn't really give any reasoning because there isn't many statistics behind it. Just the general eye ball test. The past few years haven't been as bad though. He always seems to hold on the ball for long and if he gets it out quick then a lot of them are(or were) dump offs. People used to say his line was trash, but he would always hold on to the ball for so long and occasionally get away with it because he is the size of a dlineman and is tough as heck to take down. And yes, at least statistically, Brown has made him better. Brown didn't really start contributing until year 2. Since year 2 Ben has 2 season below 26 TD passes (both 21) and before Brown he had 5 such season and only 2 seasons (out of 7. Counting 2010 in this still because Brown didn't contribute much as a rookie) with more than 18 TDs. Ben was not a top 5 QB before Brown. His TD/INT ratio before Brown was- Year 1- 17/11 Year 2- 17/9 Year 3- 18/23 Year 4- 32/11 Year 5- 17/11 Year 6- 26/12 Year 7- 17/5- Brown was a rookie. So I guess only those 2 good seasons (1 pretty great, statistically) and the other 5 game manager seasons (Alex Smith-esque before this season) makes him top 5? Don't think so.Before Antonio Brown- struggled to hit 20 TD passes After Antonio Brown- statistically, considered a top QB. That is just what happens with a top WR and a stud RB when healthy. His help before Brown wasn't even that bad either. It is just that Brown is arguably the top WR in football. His stats are going to go up with that caliber of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 9 minutes ago, TheMonarch1110 said: I didn't really give any reasoning because there isn't many statistics behind it. Just the general eye ball test. Oh yes....the eye test. Haters have eyes too. Not necessarily saying you are just hating on Ben....but there are alot of bias and/or uninformed eyes out there, so if youre only support was the "eye test", it makes sense why you got hate for that. Quote The past few years haven't been as bad though. He always seems to hold on the ball for long and if he gets it out quick then a lot of them are(or were) dump offs. Yes, he has always held onto the ball too long, but that has more to do with him trying to make a play rather than taking what the defense gives him. It has hurt us at times, but he has also made some huge plays doing that over the year. The dump off argument is completely silly without context. Every QBs throws a alot of dumpoffs and short throws. Alot of it is, as I said, taking what the defense gives you. Ben doesnt dump it off any more than most QBs, and that includes the better ones. Quote People used to say his line was trash, but he would always hold on to the ball for so long and occasionally get away with it because he is the size of a dlineman and is tough as heck to take down. From 2007 to 2012 or so, his line was trash. Our Oline didnt get much better until we hired Munchack. Not sure what this argument proves in regards to Ben being overrated. Yes, he has always held onto the ball longer than he shouldve. Everyone knows this. Sometimes its because he is trying to look for the big play. Sometimes his WRs arent getting open. Sometimes its because he simply doesnt see someone get open. Point is....none of this really supports any argument for him being overrated, because a) it has no real context and b) he has always held onto the ball too long at times, but that has both hurt the Steelers AND helped them. Quote And yes, at least statistically, Brown has made him better. Not really, but we will see where you go with this... Quote Brown didn't really start contributing until year 2. Since year 2 Ben has 2 season below 26 TD passes (both 21) and before Brown he had 5 such season and only 2 seasons (out of 7. Counting 2010 in this still because Brown didn't contribute much as a rookie) with more than 18 TDs. Ben was not a top 5 QB before Brown. His TD/INT ratio before Brown was- Year 1- 17/11 Year 2- 17/9 Year 3- 18/23 Year 4- 32/11 Year 5- 17/11 Year 6- 26/12 Year 7- 17/5- Brown was a rookie. First you say its the eye test....now your using stats without context to support your argument.... Year 1 and 2, Ben played Cowher-ball.....meaning, pass to get a lead, then take the air out of the ball. It wasnt a passing offense. It was a power run offense. Those were also his first two years, and he missed 3 games his 2nd year. Year 3 he was playing banged up all year after his accident. Also had a serious concussion midseason. Year 4 was the first year he played in a pass first offense under Arians....32 TD passes. Year 5 he was injured in the Eagles game early in the season when he was sacked 8 times and took an absurd amount of hits (and no, it wasnt because he held the ball, it was because our OLine couldnt block anyone). He was playing hurt all year and didnt start to heal up until the playoffs. Year 7 Ben missed the first 4 games. Quote So I guess only those 2 good seasons (1 pretty great, statistically) and the other 5 game manager seasons (Alex Smith-esque before this season) makes him top 5? Don't think so. See, this is why you likely got hate, because you dont really have a good argument and its based on limited knowledge of which you speak. The first 2 seasons were the only "game manager" seasons. Season 3 Cowher completely mishandled him after his accident. Actually had him passing more when he shouldnt have even been on the field until at least midseason. Season 5 hurt all year. Season 7 missed first 4 games. And top 5? It really depends what year youre talking about. He was always behind the main 4 (Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers), and he usually bounced in and out of the top 5 with guys like Rivers and Romo...who were both better than him at times. Quote Before Antonio Brown- struggled to hit 20 TD passes After Antonio Brown- statistically, considered a top QB. That is just what happens with a top WR and a stud RB when healthy. Im not going to continue discussing his TDs when you clearly dont even know what youre talking about. First you said it was the eye test.....not youre using stats. Which is it? And I can tell you didnt really watch Ben much early in his career since you clearly didnt even remember alot of the factoids I pointed out....so your "eye test" isnt really credible. Quote His help before Brown wasn't even that bad either. It is just that Brown is arguably the top WR in football. His stats are going to go up with that caliber of player. Ben's 2nd best season happened before Brown. He also had a season on par with other good seasons with Brown in 2009. Brown is a great WR and obviously helps Ben, but acting like Brown is the only reason Ben has had as much success as he had is pretty silly. I have no issue with someone thinking Ben is overrated, but your entire argument is flawed and based on clearly limited knowledge of him. And another thing.....when you call someone "overrated", its relative to other players and extenuating factors.....so my question is, in what capacity is he "overrated". Is he overrated when compared to the big 4 he played with (Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers)? No....because the vast majority of knowledgeable and objective fans never rated him higher than them. Is he overrated when because he was usually rated in the top 5-8 along with guys like Rivers and Romo? No....because thats usually where he was. Is he overrated because he has had some good statistical years with Brown? I dont know..but if that IS the case, I guess alot of HOF caliber QBs were overrated then because alot of them had help from some amazing WRs. But Im asking YOU....in what regard is he "overrated"? And try to answer that without resorting to assumptions and posting stats with no context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMonarch1110 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: But Im asking YOU....in what regard is he "overrated"? And try to answer that without resorting to assumptions and posting stats with no context. A good amount is probably bias. I've just never seen it consistently. I heard a lot of top 5, top QB. In that sense, I think that is a reach. Maybe that range you stated, but I'd probably say towards the bottom end of that if so...and that is just personal opinion. I think he would be an absolute stud of a flag football QB or a backyard, no pads, tackle QB. It seems all the games I put on with him he just isn't great so I never see it. He has glimpses like almost every QB does. Maybe I'm just watching the wrong games with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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