.Buzz Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 22 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: A lot of times what happens is you hire a very good coordinator on either side of the ball, but they aren't great communicators and that becomes a problem. Saleh? Complete opposite. Very bright, well respected and good communicator. He's also going to bring Mike McDaniels with him wherever he lands and Shanahan swears by him. Hopefully he gets his shot this offseason and on a team that isn't a dumpster fire. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 13 minutes ago, jrry32 said: That sounds silly, frankly. Limiting your pool isn't a good idea imo. Brian Flores, Bill Belichick, Sean McDermott, Pete Carroll, Mike Vrabel, and Mike Tomlin clearly prove that defensive coaches can win. Ultimately, the key is hiring the right coach. It doesn't matter if he's defensive, offensive, or special teams. You need a leader who will surround himself with the right people. I didn't say they couldn't win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Forge said: I didn't say they couldn't win That's the job, and that's my point. If they can win, you only disadvantage yourself by refusing to consider hiring a defensive coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 58 minutes ago, 49ersfan said: I'm sure some team will be very happy with a Robert Saleh/Mike McDaniel combo next season 28 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: A lot of times what happens is you hire a very good coordinator on either side of the ball, but they aren't great communicators and that becomes a problem. Saleh? Complete opposite. Very bright, well respected and good communicator. He's also going to bring Mike McDaniels with him wherever he lands and Shanahan swears by him. Hopefully he gets his shot this offseason and on a team that isn't a dumpster fire. Why do you guys think it's McD rather than Lafleur? Aren't saleh and lafleur like, "best man at your wedding tight"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, jrry32 said: That's the job, and that's my point. If they can win, you only disadvantage yourself by refusing to consider hiring a defensive coach. I can find offensive guys to win too. Defensive coaches are like running backs. I'm picking you, you better be Zeke/saquon/Peterson level prospect, and those are few and far between. You're going to have to blow me away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Forge said: I can find offensive guys to win too. Defensive coaches are like running backs. I'm picking you, you better be Zeke/saquon/Peterson level prospect, and those are few and far between. Except they're not like running backs. It's the same position (HC). It's more akin to you saying that you won't draft a QB that is shorter than 6'3". Great. I'll draft any QB I think has the goods. You can limit your pool to only offensive guys. I'll consider everybody. I bet I end up with better odds in that scenario. Edited November 22, 2020 by jrry32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Except they're not like running backs. It's the same position (HC). It's more akin to you saying that you won't draft a QB that is shorter than 6'3". Great. I'll draft any QB I think has the goods. You can limit your pool to only offensive guys. I'll consider everybody. I bet I end up with better odds in that scenario. Okay, give me some math that supports it. I'll listen. And I have no problems with sub 6'3 quarterbacks, so I'll stick with my running back metaphor since it's the same for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Never is a bit hyperbolic, admittedly. really shouldn't say that. There are almost always some form of exception. But highly unlikely I'm taking a defensive head coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Forge said: Okay, give me some math that supports it. I'll listen. And I have no problems with sub 6'3 quarterbacks, so I'll stick with my running back metaphor since it's the same for me. It's not remotely analogous. HBs are considered less valuable than other positions. A winning defensive HC is not less valuable than a winning offensive HC. They literally do the same job. You're taking a single position and refusing to consider a subset of candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Just now, jrry32 said: It's not remotely analogous. HBs are considered less valuable than other positions. A winning defensive HC is not less valuable than a winning offensive HC. They literally do the same job. You're taking a single position and refusing to consider a subset of candidates. I said the use of never was hyperbolic. I'd interview them, give them a chance to knock my socks off, but they have a steep hill to climb because if I view two guys similarly, the defensive guy isn't getting the nod. They have to be the clear better option to me. That's why they are like running backs (specifically first round running backs). They have to be significantly better prospects than their competition if I'm taking them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 But like I said, provide math and I'm all ears. I don't think the odds are any better or worse. Sometimes you find your guy in one interview, sometimes 100. Sometimes that guy is the right guy, sometimes he's not. I don't think it's really something you can quantify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, Forge said: I said the use of never was hyperbolic. I'd interview them, give them a chance to knock my socks off, but they have a steep hill to climb because if I view two guys similarly, the defensive guy isn't getting the nod. They have to be the clear better option to me. That's why they are like running backs (specifically first round running backs). They have to be significantly better prospects than their competition if I'm taking them. In the same vein, though, you're also saying there's not a good way to actually quantify these things lol. It's all feel. If you're going to consider defensive coaches, that would resolve my criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 14 minutes ago, jrry32 said: In the same vein, though, you're also saying there's not a good way to actually quantify these things lol. It's all feel. If you're going to consider defensive coaches, that would resolve my criticism. Yes, 100% this is a feeling / preference thing (another reason why I use running back analogy). The use of the word never is poor...I generally try to shy away from "never" and "always", but sometimes forget myself. I had to go back and re-read my original post to see if I did that and you can kind of see where I realized that I did that lol. But yeah, this is 100% feel. Especially if they are new head coaches. I mean, you can't even really go back and look at what they have done because being an OC/DC is just a different job and has nothing to do with being a head coach. So its the interview, its the plan, and it's my projection of what happens moving forward. And here's the thing...its not even be a good reason for the reason and the preference because I think it impacts such a small percentage of cases. But it's hard to shake. I will say that if I had an elite QB, I'd have no concerns about a defensive guy at all. So if Andy Reid retired, and I'm sitting there with a vacancy and I have Mahomes entrenched, defensive guys likely aren't starting from the back of the line with ground to make up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 7 hours ago, Forge said: Why do you guys think it's McD rather than Lafleur? Aren't saleh and lafleur like, "best man at your wedding tight"? I mean Saleh and Matt LaFleur are best friends and I'm sure he is friends with Mike LaFleur as well, but by all reports he will be taking McDaniels with him wherever he goes. McDaniels is the one Shanahan always gives credit for coming up with the types of run concepts that he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scar988 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 14 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said: I mean Saleh and Matt LaFleur are best friends and I'm sure he is friends with Mike LaFleur as well, but by all reports he will be taking McDaniels with him wherever he goes. McDaniels is the one Shanahan always gives credit for coming up with the types of run concepts that he does. McDaniel (no s) is a brilliant dude. He helps with the passing concepts too. I’d take him in Atlanta as a head coach or OC in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.