ronjon1990 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 5 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: He's dropped 7 passes, but you can't assume he'll drop every ball. You gotta give him targets. This isn't Seth Roberts. It's AMARI FREAKING COOPER. This guy has flashed superstar potential in the past, you can't just ignore him every game. It's a joke. I've said it plenty of times before, so feel free to debate it, potential doesn't = production. You're right, it is AMARI FREAKING COOPER. The guy who flashed in the past (as have many) and never consistently produced. Now, not defending Roberts at all as I wish he was gone. But I can't stand the Cooper defenders anymore. Robert Griffin had great potential. Reggie Bush had great potential. Trent Richardson had great potential. Heck, any WR that can run really fast, jump really high, and catch a ball has great potential. It's that kind of logic that Al used to draft WR's with. Thus far, Cooper hasn't been a whole heck of a lot better than DHB. Cooper has a top shelf QB, a solid #1 guy in Crabtree across from him, and he isn't producing. He was drafted #4 overall. That kind of investment shouldn't need manufactured or forced touches. He's being outplayed by WRs with less potential but clearly a higher floor. And there just isn't any excuse anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Good to see Cook being as consistent as I assumed he would be. Consistently a letdown..... Here's to hoping something changes soon. If I'm being honest, we overachieved a bit last year. This year, it could just be tough luck. We have a franchise QB and some key pieces to move ahead with. But clearly there is a lot of work to be done personnel wise- coaches and players both. At least most of the cuts will be easy to figure out and the needs for FA/Draft are blatantly obvious. All I don't want to see is excuses deterring us from picking up upgrades if available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 5 hours ago, raidr4life said: Penn was going to beat that azz. The guy had a point. Penn is not worth the contract he just signed. Maybe it is missing the off-season or he held out knowing physically he has lost something. I hope it is missing the off-season and he gets back in the groove. I hate to say it but we are +1 in turnovers in wins and -3 in our loses. We won so many tight games last year but we were amazing in the turnover ratio. This year not so much. This team will be much better next week when healthy. I think having Conley and Amerson healthy this game might have been enough to get the win. IF Smith is left alone again on the outside with a speedy WR with no help over the top somebody needs to be fired. Nelson or a coach it does not matter. Flacco probably does not attempt that pass if we have Conley or Amerson on Wallace. I am tempted to have Smith cut just for giving a ten yard cushion on 3rd and 4. We still have a chance to win if we get a stop there. Was it just me or did the Ravens start ramming it down our throats straight up the middle as soon as Lee went out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 2 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Was it just me or did the Ravens start ramming it down our throats straight up the middle as soon as Lee went out. They were ramming it down our throats whenever they wanted to, really. The only point where they weren't is when they went conservative, trying to kill the clock. When they needed to move the ball, they did, and if they'd played full speed for the whole game, we'd have lost by more. Losing Lee was a blow, but they were moving it at will on us anyway, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 11 hours ago, SimonGruber said: The Head coach and Defensive coordinator deserve much more blame imo bet you a Vic fangio,Wade Phillips or Jim Schwartz would have the defense playing better Pretty clear coaching is a huge issue on defense. There is a lot of talent and promise, but they are not schemed effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 10 hours ago, dante9876 said: That 4th and 3 punt was awful. He could at least left offense out to try to draw them offsides and take a delay of gain if he was set on punting. Honest question... what was worse. 4th and 3 punt this week. Or the 4th and 11 fake punt run last week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 9 hours ago, raidr4life said: We just look poorly coached, man for man we have more talent than KC and even missing one of there best players, they ball and do creative things on offense getting their play makers involved. I honestly didn't want it to come to this. I felt this way last season (more on defense) and always thought JDR was never a long term answer. But no denying it right now. The basics.... they are not focused. They are playing flat 3 weeks running. That is hard to ignore. We saw it last season, but Carr was baling them out with some big moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 5 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: I've said it plenty of times before, so feel free to debate it, potential doesn't = production. You're right, it is AMARI FREAKING COOPER. The guy who flashed in the past (as have many) and never consistently produced. Now, not defending Roberts at all as I wish he was gone. But I can't stand the Cooper defenders anymore. Robert Griffin had great potential. Reggie Bush had great potential. Trent Richardson had great potential. Heck, any WR that can run really fast, jump really high, and catch a ball has great potential. It's that kind of logic that Al used to draft WR's with. Thus far, Cooper hasn't been a whole heck of a lot better than DHB. Cooper has a top shelf QB, a solid #1 guy in Crabtree across from him, and he isn't producing. He was drafted #4 overall. That kind of investment shouldn't need manufactured or forced touches. He's being outplayed by WRs with less potential but clearly a higher floor. And there just isn't any excuse anymore. That is EXACTLY what a good OC does. He put the ball in his playmakers hands. This isn't about potential. We've literally seen Amari take games over. Make highlight reel catches. Make some of the best CBs in the game trip over themselves with precise route running. And obliterate defenders in the open field with ball in his hands. 2 targets yesterday. What other WRs in the game who have proved to be big play threats only get that amount of targets? He's getting open, he's not getting the ball, period. And the OC isn't creating him opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daineraider Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 15 hours ago, latinraraiderfan 3 said: i been saying this since forever, the problem is that reggie have like 5 or 6 year and hanst been able to get a good defense , but , oh no , i forgot you cant say anithyng bad about reegiie here, excuse please moderators ... Its fine that you dont like him, but youre a broken record. You refuse to give him any credit for anything he has done. I have been harsh on his drafts and a few other decisions, but I wouldnt get rid of him. Its ok to criticize, but at least be rational about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 3 hours ago, big_palooka said: That is EXACTLY what a good OC does. He put the ball in his playmakers hands. This isn't about potential. We've literally seen Amari take games over. Make highlight reel catches. Make some of the best CBs in the game trip over themselves with precise route running. And obliterate defenders in the open field with ball in his hands. 2 targets yesterday. What other WRs in the game who have proved to be big play threats only get that amount of targets? He's getting open, he's not getting the ball, period. And the OC isn't creating him opportunities. The excuses need to stop as to why Cooper isn't consistently producing. I've heard it all now. It's JDR's fault, no it's Carr's fault, no wait it's Crabtree's fault, hold on it's the OC's fault and the best on is that it's RM fault. How about putting the blame on Cooper and the crazy hype machine that surrounds him. These coaches, QB's and players see Cooper everyday, he's not getting the ball for a reason and it's not because they "don't want to get the ball in a playmakers hands". Could it be he is not the "playmaker" that all the Cooper homers make him out to be. Great players produce, are consistent and find ways to make big plays and get the ball in their hands. You claim "he's getting open" but I'm not sure how you can claim that or what your excuse is other than he's open but the QB is purposely not throwing the ball to his "open playmaker" . Why is that? He's made some nice plays and he's young. He also lacks consistency, focus and I dont see the passion or fire that I see in elite players like Julio, Dez, Green, Tron etc. Cooper has been the player I expected him to be and I called it from day 1. I highly questioned his value at 4 overall due to his lack of elite skills and size. My evaluation of Cooper has been spot on. I hope he can find some consistency or be the player that the homers claim he is. We really need an elite X playmaker at the WR position. So far I see Cooper being able to step in as the number 2 for Crabs when he retires but that still leaves a major hole as we will need a true elite 1. To be the player that Crab's is Cooper needs to improve on his hands and learn how to be more physical in the red zone and utilize those "eilte ball skills" that most of you claim he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 25 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: The excuses need to stop as to why Cooper isn't consistently producing. I've heard it all now. It's JDR's fault, no it's Carr's fault, no wait it's Crabtree's fault, hold on it's the OC's fault and the best on is that it's RM fault. How about putting the blame on Cooper and the crazy hype machine that surrounds him. These coaches, QB's and players see Cooper everyday, he's not getting the ball for a reason and it's not because they "don't want to get the ball in a playmakers hands". Could it be he is not the "playmaker" that all the Cooper homers make him out to be. Great players produce, are consistent and find ways to make big plays and get the ball in their hands. You claim "he's getting open" but I'm not sure how you can claim that or what your excuse is other than he's open but the QB is purposely not throwing the ball to his "open playmaker" . Why is that? He's made some nice plays and he's young. He also lacks consistency, focus and I dont see the passion or fire that I see in elite players like Julio, Dez, Green, Tron etc. Cooper has been the player I expected him to be and I called it from day 1. I highly questioned his value at 4 overall due to his lack of elite skills and size. My evaluation of Cooper has been spot on. I hope he can find some consistency or be the player that the homers claim he is. We really need an elite X playmaker at the WR position. So far I see Cooper being able to step in as the number 2 for Crabs when he retires but that still leaves a major hole as we will need a true elite 1. To be the player that Crab's is Cooper needs to improve on his hands and learn how to be more physical in the red zone and utilize those "eilte ball skills" that most of you claim he has. Predictable response from you. I am in no way a Cooper homer. I can objectively (and I suggest you do the same) look at him and see that he's been a playmaking threat since joining the Raiders. I also see the all 22 film and watch him beat his man consistently. Great player produce.... when the ball is thrown their direction. Musgrave would get Cooper in space on screens and let him do the rest. Where has that been? As for the QBs, I don't know their reads. Carr has been been getting the ball out fast and barely letting things develop. Cooper has been noticeable open and just completely missed numerous times and commented on by the booth. IMO, it's coaching.... an emphasis on getting the ball out quick and not going through progression. Even w/ EJ.... no shots down field. Everything was short and quick. Cooper is a decoy in this offense right now. drawing coverage and rarely the first read. They'd rather force Cook right now. He certainly lacks consistency. He's struggled with drops to start the year. I don't pretend he's a superstar, he's not. But he's also not this guys we've seen through 5 games, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latinraraiderfan 3 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 16 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said: Dude, you can say and think what you want. But you have to give logic behind it or else posters are going to question and debate you. Literally the point of being on a forum, no? i think the best arguments are the results the w, or l colum , ey one question who is the person who hired the coachs, the of coordinator , the defensive coordinator , it its the owner or is reggie, i dont know ? because if its the owner davis reggie has less responsability , but if its it is reggie ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonGruber Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 20 minutes ago, latinraraiderfan 3 said: i think the best arguments are the results the w, or l colum , ey one question who is the person who hired the coachs, the of coordinator , the defensive coordinator , it its the owner or is reggie, i dont know ? because if its the owner davis reggie has less responsability , but if its it is reggie ... Now we are getting somewhere Mark Davis made the call on Jack and Jack hired KNJ. Dare I say Jack ran off Bill musgrave ? . Having said that I pretty sure I read Reggie was high on Tony Sparano as head coach which is Barf worthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: The excuses need to stop as to why Cooper isn't consistently producing. I've heard it all now. It's JDR's fault, no it's Carr's fault, no wait it's Crabtree's fault, hold on it's the OC's fault and the best on is that it's RM fault. How about putting the blame on Cooper and the crazy hype machine that surrounds him. These coaches, QB's and players see Cooper everyday, he's not getting the ball for a reason and it's not because they "don't want to get the ball in a playmakers hands". Could it be he is not the "playmaker" that all the Cooper homers make him out to be. Great players produce, are consistent and find ways to make big plays and get the ball in their hands. You claim "he's getting open" but I'm not sure how you can claim that or what your excuse is other than he's open but the QB is purposely not throwing the ball to his "open playmaker" . Why is that? He's made some nice plays and he's young. He also lacks consistency, focus and I dont see the passion or fire that I see in elite players like Julio, Dez, Green, Tron etc. Cooper has been the player I expected him to be and I called it from day 1. I highly questioned his value at 4 overall due to his lack of elite skills and size. My evaluation of Cooper has been spot on. I hope he can find some consistency or be the player that the homers claim he is. We really need an elite X playmaker at the WR position. So far I see Cooper being able to step in as the number 2 for Crabs when he retires but that still leaves a major hole as we will need a true elite 1. To be the player that Crab's is Cooper needs to improve on his hands and learn how to be more physical in the red zone and utilize those "eilte ball skills" that most of you claim he has. Oh please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 hour ago, raidr4life said: Oh please! Haha exactly. What's your excuse for Cooper's lack of production this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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