Draft Discussion, team needs, 2021 FA...

[minutemancl]

14 minutes ago, Gmen said:

Because QB is the most important position, I think it's better to be aggressive in the search for the right QB.  The Cardinals turned their fortunes around quickly by moving on from Rosen in favor of Murray.  The conservative approach of drafting Bosa, and letting Rosen play another year would have cost the franchise.

This is something that hasn't been talked about much, but imagine if WFT had recognized that Haskins was a dud earlier and drafted Herbert last year?  And to a lesser extent, what if the Giants drafted Herbert and then traded Jones away for a 2nd round pick?  It would have seemed crazy at the time, but we'd be better off today.

And I know there is a flip side to this like - what if the Bills moved on from Josh Allen after year two?   But I still think it's better to be aggressive in your search.

QB is definitely the most important position, but the confounding factor here is that the Cardinals and Bills also drafted and acquired talent around the QB position extremely well. They went and got bonafide star wide receivers. They solidified their OL. They added various talented defensive pieces.

If Zack Wilson falls to 11, I'm in agreement that you take him. But we need to make some big time signings and/or trades and solidify the rest of this roster, whether we keep Jones or not. That will have as much of an effect on improving the team 

[Gmen]

18 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

QB is definitely the most important position, but the confounding factor here is that the Cardinals and Bills also drafted and acquired talent around the QB position extremely well. They went and got bonafide star wide receivers. They solidified their OL. They added various talented defensive pieces.

If Zack Wilson falls to 11, I'm in agreement that you take him. But we need to make some big time signings and/or trades and solidify the rest of this roster, whether we keep Jones or not. That will have as much of an effect on improving the team 

And honestly I'm not even saying this.  I just think the Giants just need to keep their options open.  And step 1 is  objectively evaluating Daniel Jones after two seasons.  Step 2 is evaluating the top QB prospects in the draft.  If the conclusion after this evaluation is that Jones is better than other available options, so be it.  Just don't be closed minded about it.  Joe Judge has said multiple times in the past few weeks that Jones is their QB moving forward.  I don't think that's an open minded approach.

[MKnight82]

4 hours ago, Gmen said:

Because QB is the most important position, I think it's better to be aggressive in the search for the right QB.  The Cardinals turned their fortunes around quickly by moving on from Rosen in favor of Murray.  The conservative approach of drafting Bosa, and letting Rosen play another year would have cost the franchise.

This is something that hasn't been talked about much, but imagine if WFT had recognized that Haskins was a dud earlier and drafted Herbert last year?  And to a lesser extent, what if the Giants drafted Herbert and then traded Jones away for a 2nd round pick?  It would have seemed crazy at the time, but we'd be better off today.

And I know there is a flip side to this like - what if the Bills moved on from Josh Allen after year two?   But I still think it's better to be aggressive in your search.

If Washington had the #1 pick last year I think we would have selected Burrow.  I think everyone has to be surprised how good Herbert has looked this early on.  The Cardinals also moved only after having the #1 pick.  I think it would be rather strange for the Giants to move on from Daniel Jones for what is likely the 3rd or 4th QB taken in this draft class.  Don't get me wrong I don't think Daniel Jones is any good but I don't think you can just abandon him 2 years in for a non-elite prospect.  

Also I've seen a lot of mocks put Kwity Paye as the pick for the Giants at 11.  I know its really early but do you think they would go that direction?  They seem to have bigger needs IMO but what do I know.  

[Acgott]

29 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Also I've seen a lot of mocks put Kwity Paye as the pick for the Giants at 11.  I know its really early but do you think they would go that direction?  They seem to have bigger needs IMO but what do I know.  

Knowing nothing about the prospect, if he is a pass rusher, then it’s 100% a need. Pass Rusher or WR is our top need, and great value @ 11.

[MKnight82]

4 minutes ago, Acgott said:

Knowing nothing about the prospect, if he is a pass rusher, then it’s 100% a need. Pass Rusher or WR is our top need, and great value @ 11.

He is but he’s bigger, kind of a DE/DT tweener very similar to Taco Charlton or Rashan Gary.  He’s also raw like both of them, and neither of them have impressed.

[Acgott]

13 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

He is but he’s bigger, kind of a DE/DT tweener very similar to Taco Charlton or Rashan Gary.  He’s also raw like both of them, and neither of them have impressed.

We could be losing Leonard Williams and/or Dalvin Tomlinson. We will definitely be looking to restocking the DL.

[Kodaraw]

On 1/4/2021 at 12:34 AM, Go_Giants said:

The sting of missing the playoffs is over. This is what I am doing if I am Giants.

Sign Allen Robinson to an 18 mill a year contract he wants.

Franchise  Leonard Williams 

1st round draft pass rushing DL

2nd round draft pass rushing LB

Trade up back into the 2nd round to get our #2 CB.

 

If we do this, the only slight weakness I see on our team is at RT and that is if Peart does not develop, though I am pretty sure he will develop, if he does not who knows maybe we keep Solder around?  Some one could say Evan Engram is a weakness, at just 5 million he is too cheap to cut. If we can't trade him for a 3rd round pick lets just make Kaden Smith a bigger part of the offense. 

We don’t need a pass rushing DL. If DG drafts another DL in the first round I will riot and Mara should immediately grow a pair and fire him.  He’s spent 1/2 his draft capital on DL. 
 
Allen Robinson, Bud Dupree, Williams, and Tomlinson. Abrams is good with cap and can make that all work. We will have about $40-45M anyway. Solder retires, cut Zeitler and a few others on bad deals.  

Then go pass rushing LB/Edge - Parsons, Collins, JOK, Paye, Jones II.  I think WR1, OL, Edge, and CB2 have to be the focus of draft/FA - though Love did have a strong game against a mediocre Dallas team. 
 

/E: I do agree that this is a solid WR class and not great edge class, though the top three LBs are solid pass rushers.  I don’t think Smith makes it out of top 8, but we probably should spend money on edge over WR with this draft. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Kodaraw

[Kodaraw]

18 hours ago, Gmen said:

I hate that the season is over and I don't know if Daniel Jones is the answer at QB.  The Giants seem convinced he is, I'm not so sure.  If I were the Giants, I would do my due diligence scouting Zach Wilson and Trey Lance, who have a chance of being there at 11.  Regardless, the Giants better get a new OC and a true #1 receiver.

I hope Lance stays and plays next year. Only one season as a starter makes me nervous and he’d be top QB next year. If we are picking early, it’s probably bc our QB in year 3 is making the same mistakes as year 1 and 2 

[GMENNATION]

If you look at Daniel Jones's season-long stats, it looks bad but there are some silver linings. I think he showed marked improvement throughout the season. He threw one interception over his last 6 games and we all know that was a well-thrown ball that Engram should have caught. That despite being sacked more this year than last year. And this all coming with WRs that just were not getting any separation and an OL that was consistently giving up pressures. There were surely many bad throws that could have been interceptions so I get that you can't take away INTs that weren't his fault but even still, he significantly cut down on his turnovers throughout the season. 

Some other thoughts:

1. Darius Slayton's regression was probably the most disappointing development of the season (other than Saquon going down, of course). He just disappeared in the second half of the season and it seemed he lost any ability to come up with contested catches. Maybe teams just focused on slowing him and it exposed that he's not a true #1? He has to get stronger if he's going to continue to be a contributor. 

2. Evan Engram has to go. They picked up his option so he'll be here next year but he is not a good football player. The fact that he's a pro bowler is a joke. Time to move on or diminish his role.

3. As well as Gallman played stepping in for Saquon, I have to assume we are headed for a mid-round RB draft pick. Dion Lewis did nothing except fumble kick returns and Gallman is nearing the end of his rookie deal. Every RB except for Saquon is a UFA. Maybe they bring back Freeman or Morris at veteran minimum for some continuity but it's hard to imagine NYG and Gallman will agree financially. 

4. How uncomfortable must Dalvin Tomlinson be in a helmet? His face is SMUSHED in there. He must get bad headaches. 

[Gmen]

21 hours ago, GMENNATION said:

2. Evan Engram has to go. They picked up his option so he'll be here next year but he is not a good football player. The fact that he's a pro bowler is a joke. Time to move on or diminish his role.

Engram had

• 1 rushing TD
• 1 receiving TD
• 3 passes off his hands result in INTs
• 2 fumbles lost
• 1 lost game due to a drop (Eagles game)

His hands and concentration are terrible.  And it's a shame because he can outrun almost any linebacker covering him.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Gmen

[w4rrior723]

6 hours ago, Gmen said:

Engram had

• 1 rushing TD
• 1 receiving TD
• 3 passes off his hands result in INTs
• 2 fumbles lost
• 1 lost game due to a drop (Eagles game)

His hands and concentration are terrible.  And it's a shame because he can outrun almost any linebacker covering him.

The level at which he underperforms is baffling to me, considering his physical tools and how he seems to work. We know he can catch the football. He's made some very difficult catches over the years. Seems like he's just a head case, causing him to drop easy ones. Reminds me a bit of JerMichael Finley some years back with the Packers, except Engram has even more "talent." Such a shame. He just doesn't have the mind of a football player.

[Kip Smithers]

Wait, Engram had one receiving TD the whole year? Goodness gracious. It's a shame because he does the other things well except for the most important one, catch. We gotta go WR or EDGE at 11 assuming the value is there. Chase won't fall to 11 even after dropping out this past season. 

[Gmen19851]

1 hour ago, Kip Smithers said:

Wait, Engram had one receiving TD the whole year? Goodness gracious. It's a shame because he does the other things well except for the most important one, catch. We gotta go WR or EDGE at 11 assuming the value is there. Chase won't fall to 11 even after dropping out this past season. 

While I agree with your reasoning I think that those positions might be a reach at 11.  I think it's entirely possible if not likely Jaylen Waddle returns to Alabama for his senior season to be "the guy" after an injury riddled season.  If that does happen WR would be an absolute reach at 11.  Edge could be a possibility if Kwity Paye is still there.  Gregory Rousseau has seemed to lose a bit of steam but that may be due to sitting out the season.  

So let's look at what we do know.  We pick 11 and we know that 3, possibly 4 QB's (Lawerence, Fields, Wilson, maybe Lance) will go in the top 10.  2 WR's (Chase and Smith) 1OT  (Sewell) and possbily a TE (Pitts)  I think that leaves us, as of now, with a choice of 4-5 prospects.  I think we're looking at either Patrick Surtain, Gregory Rousseau, Caleb Farley, Micah Parsons or Kwity Paye.  

 

I would rather draft defense to add to a really solid young core and pay for offense this off season.  This season is a pivotal year for Jones and offense was clearly the largest issue on this team last year.  I would imagine that we sign a WR and 1 or 2 OL.  Also possibly bring in a veteran to compete with Engram.  We need to have a final answer on Jones by this time next year and going out and getting him some veteran help would go a long way.  

 

 

[Go_Giants]

4 hours ago, Gmen19851 said:

I would rather draft defense to add to a really solid young core and pay for offense this off season.  This season is a pivotal year for Jones and offense was clearly the largest issue on this team last year.  I would imagine that we sign a WR and 1 or 2 OL.  Also possibly bring in a veteran to compete with Engram.  We need to have a final answer on Jones by this time next year and going out and getting him some veteran help would go a long way.  

 

 

We all ready have that veteran to compete with Engram, Kaden Smith. How is OL still a need? If Peart in the off-season has not develop we still have Solder as a backup plan. The only wideout free agent wideout I want is Allen Robinson, Kenny Golladay is hurt too often to give him a big contract. 

If DL and WR a reach with the 11th pick, what position would not be. We could also use a #2 CB and another Linebacker would either of those positions not be a reach?

[Giants4eva]

The way this next FA season is shaping up i can only imagine that the FO is gonna come away with maybe 1 top flight FA. If thats the case i have to go Allen Robinson has to be the point of interest. Bud Dupree went down with a torn ACL and hell be in recovery mode this year. I cant see this organization going after a pass rusher like him knowing he just had a major injury. Allen Robinson should be the main focus of this FA period. We need to come away with a #1 of some type on either EDGE or WR in this next free agency class. And Robinson IMO has to be that guy. I think heading into the draft at that point our options become better on selection because i think where we sit at #11 the depth of quality defensive players will be better than at the depth of WRs. The curve ball for me though is TE. Evan Engram has shown he is just plain inconsistent (and thats being nice).. one guy i wanna keep an eye on is Kyle Pitts out of Florida. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Giants4eva