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resilient part 2

Coaches, should they be replaced?

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18 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

Dallas got 4 sacks today, putting us up to 16 on the season, 2nd in the league behind Carolina- all from the DL today, by the way, as opposed to the playoff game when our 3 sacks on Rodgers all came from DBs. Anyone who thinks we lost this game because we couldn't pressure Rodgers is just letting the narrative write itself instead of putting serious thought into their critique.

We've spent 4 of our last 8 Top 60 picks on front 7 players, 3 of them on the defensive end position specifically. The problem is that the only one meaningfully contributing to the team is Demarcus Lawrence, in his last season on a discount. The real problem, IMO, besides just whiffing on guys early in the draft, is the lack of interest in the defensive tackle position.

We entered the season with two solid starters at DT backed up by some DE/DT hybrids and a second year UDFA we signed in September. Predictably, Paea is hurt with the same knee problem we knew about, Collins has yet to quite break out as we've hoped, and, well Brian Price is fine I guess. Without Sean Lee, our team is just getting obliterated against the run. That's what's making our defense look bad, even though Rodgers only completed passes on roughly half of his dropbacks- we can't put the opposing QB in disadvantageous down and distances because we can't stop the run.

And the reason our team shows a willingness to draft DBs with first round that's synonymous with the OL but not the DL is because of snap count percentages. I don't know if that's a full justification, but regardless it's highly disingenuous to suggest this team has some sort of infatuation with drafting DBs high that isn't shared by successful organization (see: last year's Giants, this year's Chiefs). It's just a hot button to throw out and pretend you know better without factual basis.

I couldn't have said it better myself Matt. This team can't stop the run with Lee out, meaning that we need either a impact LB or a DT. The team isn't interested in the 1 tech position but they have definitely invested in the DL. Our 1st round DE looks like a bust (as a lot of us thought) and most of our high picks were on improving the front 7. This team knew Lee's injury history and his age, along with the Jaylon Smith injury. The fact that they passed on TJ Watt is mind boggling.

Edited by Tony7188

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12 minutes ago, Tony7188 said:

 If true then Jason Garrett has got to go

idk. It's double edged. Dallas has run the draft using multiple voices for years. Scouts wanted Shariff Floyd a few years ago, Marinelli did not. Marinelli won and it looks like a good call. Not sold a Charlton, but rookie DEs typically don't impact much anyway. Need to let it play out more.

As for topic itself, Garrett and Linehan are fine. You can question both at times. But, offensively team has put up 31 pts in b2b games and Garrett does well for most part. Marinelli and his D though....it's getting pretty tough to defend him at this point. 

Speaking of defense....I'd like to know how much X. Woods played? Heath still see majority of snaps?

Edited by WizardHawk

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28 minutes ago, Tony7188 said:

I couldn't have said it better myself Matt. This team can't stop the run with Lee out, meaning that we need either a impact LB or a DT. The team isn't interested in the 1 tech position but they have definitely invested in the DL. Our 1st round DE looks like a bust (as a lot of us thought) and most of our high picks were on improving the front 7. This team knew Lee's injury history and his age, along with the Jaylon Smith injury. The fact that they passed on TJ Watt is mind boggling.

I certainly wouldn't be upset with another edge rusher in the first round, because I wholeheartedly agree that pressuring the opposing team's QB is paramount to success in this league. Not to mention, we're set to have 3 or 4 DEs' contracts expire in '19, and I think Dallas is wise not to hand out long-term, cap killing contracts at that position very often. If there's one position where youthful explosion and motivation for a payday has a big impact on production, it's the defensive line.

But in terms of why this defense is struggling *right now*, I don't know how you rank the pass rush as a bigger problem than the run defense. If anything, this team over-extended itself at the DE position this offseason at the expense of DT and LB.

Basically, if I'd told you we'd contain Rodgers to 221 yard passing on 19/29 attempts, and we'd sack him 4 times, you'd figure we won, right? But we let Aaron freaking Jones go for 19/125. God. I know the DL plays a big part in that (Tyrone Crawford cannot set the edge/contain against the run, which, I mean, why are you paying him if he can't do that) but it's not for lack of pressure- it's because we have players, and a coaching staff, whose only priority is pressure.

 

tl;dr how does anyone see that this team has 16 sacks in 5 games, all from the DL, and be like, "yeah whatever". That's insane! I don't think we had 16 defensive line sacks last year until mid-November

Edited by matt79511

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I've said for years that we don't invest enough in the d-line, and have openly campaigned for a high round 1-technique DT. The problem is that Marinelli doesn't care about that position at all. Until he's gone, this defense is going to struggle. The game has evolved away from the antiquated scheme we run.

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8 minutes ago, plan9misfit said:

I've said for years that we don't invest enough in the d-line, and have openly campaigned for a high round 1-technique DT. The problem is that Marinelli doesn't care about that position at all. Until he's gone, this defense is going to struggle. The game has evolved away from the antiquated scheme we run.

Christian Wilkins, Da'Ron Payne, Vita Vea...all would be interesting possibilities. 

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You know the Dallas Cowboys have been putting up 30+ points on offense WELL before Linehan. Seems like we've been doing that for a decade now. When you have all 5 of your OL as former 1st rounders, a 1st and 2nd round WR, and 4th overall RB, and Jason Written. You are supposed to be good. Hell, D94W could coach this offense to the top ten.

 

Maybe he was responsible for bringing in Dak. So maybe he should be a scout. Not a play caller. 

Linehan needs to not call plays.  IDC if he is fired. I just want someone else calling plays.  Someone who doesn't get cute when the situation calls for power.

Marinelli should just be a DL coach. Is it sad that I miss Rob Ryan? I think so.

 

Remember though Marinelli was the one that tipped the scales in favor of drafting Zeke. If Linehan is getting a pass for hand picking Dak(after his first choices were gone) then Marinelli is a good DC because of Zeke.

 

I like JG.  I think he should stay.  I don't want him calling plays either though.

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Not sure how anyone can defend Jason Garrett. He's a terrible coach. We didn't play as well as we did last season because of Garrett. We played well because we had the best offensive line in over 10+ years in the NFL, a rookie RB playing like an all time great, and then a rookie QB playing like a 10 year vet.

 

Now this year our offensive line is terrible and Garrett and staff have ZERO clue how to adjust. And then you throw in even with Lee, this defense is horrendous.

 

Garrett, Marinara, and Linehan all have to go. I can't believe I've been wanting this for a year or so now, but I'd kill for Jon Gruden (and I think most of that is more of Garrett being an awful coach than Gruden being the answer to ring #6.

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37 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

You know the Dallas Cowboys have been putting up 30+ points on offense WELL before Linehan. Seems like we've been doing that for a decade now. When you have all 5 of your OL as former 1st rounders, a 1st and 2nd round WR, and 4th overall RB, and Jason Written. You are supposed to be good. Hell, D94W could coach this offense to the top ten.

 

Maybe he was responsible for bringing in Dak. So maybe he should be a scout. Not a play caller. 

Linehan needs to not call plays.  IDC if he is fired. I just want someone else calling plays.  Someone who doesn't get cute when the situation calls for power.

Marinelli should just be a DL coach. Is it sad that I miss Rob Ryan? I think so.

 

Remember though Marinelli was the one that tipped the scales in favor of drafting Zeke. If Linehan is getting a pass for hand picking Dak(after his first choices were gone) then Marinelli is a good DC because of Zeke.

 

I like JG.  I think he should stay.  I don't want him calling plays either though.

I don't think Marinelli backing Zeke over Ramsey is worth nearly the same amount of goodwill as Linehan backing Dak over whoever tf else we were considering at 135th overall. Just my $.02. I get that you hate SL, but come on now.

Zeke was the fourth pick in the draft- our highest in any draft since 1991. I really can't imagine it was any one person who made the final call there- if it was, his last name was probably Jones. But really, that was an organizational decision. At the end of the day, I have to figure the coaching staff, scouts, and front office were in line by the time the pick was made. The idea that the 66-year-old, 3rd-year defensive coordinator "tipped the scales" on that decision is bogus. That's just something they say publicly to soothe the dissent that that pick should've been used on a defensive player.

Linehan going to bat for Dak is a different story. Don't act like he and the team were forced to settle for Dak because we missed on Lynch and Cook. That's an oversimplification. Those were the personnel department's guys. Those same scouts hated Dak and encouraged Dallas to pass for a fifth time. Linehan's the primary reason he's on the team. Again, things are different when you're comparing the 4th pick to the 135th pick. The former is an organizational decision discussed for the entirety of the offseason. The latter is a spot where you're letting different figures who want different guys take their turns.

But moreover, even if you think Zeke over Ramsey was the right pick, I think using that as proof that Rod knows what he's doing is kind of missing the point. Sure, we don't get 13-3 without Zeke last year, but we also don't win anything of consequence without a major turnaround from this defense, which lacks talent specifically because of Rod's over-involvement in the draft room and insistence that he can make the most of lesser talent.

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1 hour ago, matt79511 said:

I don't think Marinelli backing Zeke over Ramsey is worth nearly the same amount of goodwill as Linehan backing Dak over whoever tf else we were considering at 135th overall. Just my $.02. I get that you hate SL, but come on now.

Zeke was the fourth pick in the draft- our highest in any draft since 1991. I really can't imagine it was any one person who made the final call there- if it was, his last name was probably Jones. But really, that was an organizational decision. At the end of the day, I have to figure the coaching staff, scouts, and front office were in line by the time the pick was made. The idea that the 66-year-old, 3rd-year defensive coordinator "tipped the scales" on that decision is bogus. That's just something they say publicly to soothe the dissent that that pick should've been used on a defensive player.

Linehan going to bat for Dak is a different story. Don't act like he and the team were forced to settle for Dak because we missed on Lynch and Cook. That's an oversimplification. Those were the personnel department's guys. Those same scouts hated Dak and encouraged Dallas to pass for a fifth time. Linehan's the primary reason he's on the team. Again, things are different when you're comparing the 4th pick to the 135th pick. The former is an organizational decision discussed for the entirety of the offseason. The latter is a spot where you're letting different figures who want different guys take their turns.

But moreover, even if you think Zeke over Ramsey was the right pick, I think using that as proof that Rod knows what he's doing is kind of missing the point. Sure, we don't get 13-3 without Zeke last year, but we also don't win anything of consequence without a major turnaround from this defense, which lacks talent specifically because of Rod's over-involvement in the draft room and insistence that he can make the most of lesser talent.

I know undertones, by nature, are hard to read, but there was definitely a certain degree of tongue in cheek with my comment. Having said that, I highly doubt Linehan was the only guy that liked Dak. Seems like you are picking and choosing which draft rumour you want to believe. Dismissing one completely as PR and fully embracing the other. Either way, as I said, it was mostly tongue in cheek.

 

Also, I don't hate Linehan. I think he has done well for our passing game. I wonder though, is he the run game coordinator as well? I think in 2014 he was OC and the passing game coordinator and Callahan was the run game coordinator.  Is that right?  It seems we used to use 2 TEs/2 RB sets more often in 2014 to run and these last two years has been more disguised runs: running out of shotgun, single back, 3 wide.  We were using a FB in the 2nd half against the Packers and really doing well. I hardly ever see that with Linehan in complete control. Aikman was even bringing it up.

 

I don't really like Marinelli as the DC at all.  I like to blitz. That's just me. So I won't debate with you on him. He can go. Wish we could keep him as DL coach but demotions never happen it seems.

Edited by DaBoys

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12 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

I know undertones, by nature, are hard to read, but there was definitely a certain degree of tongue in cheek with my comment. Having said that, I highly doubt Linehan was the only guy that liked Dak. Seems like you are picking and choosing which draft rumour you want to believe. Dismissing one completely as PR and fully embracing the other. Either way, as I said, it was mostly tongue in cheek.

 

Also, I don't hate Linehan. I think he has done well for our passing game. I wonder though, is he the run game coordinator as well? I think in 2014 he was OC and the passing game coordinator and Callahan was the run game coordinator.  Is that right?  It seems we used to use 2 TEs/2 RB sets more often in 2014 to run and these last two years has been more disguised runs: running out of shotgun, single back, 3 wide.  We were using a FB in the 2nd half against the Packers and really doing well. I hardly ever see that with Linehan in complete control. Aikman was even bringing it up.

 

I don't really like Marinelli as the DC at all.  I like to blitz. That's just me. So I won't debate with you on him. He can go. Wish we could keep him as DL coach but demotions never happen it seems.

I'm just saying, I know a guy who knows a guy who says the Cowboys' personnel department *hated* Dak and that Linehan's insistence is essentially the primary reason he's on the team. So take that as you will. I take it as a sign that he's not going anywhere anytime soon.

We had plenty of success last year running out of running formations. That hasn't come as easily this year, because the blocking across the board has been a huge downgrade from last year, from the OL to the rest of the crew. I don't think Linehan is above criticism at all, but I also don't think his work last year can be overlooked, changing from an offense built around Romo to one built around Dak and Zeke on the fly to huge success. The backside counters would be a lot more effective if we could take care of the first level, the play action would be a lot more effective if we could get guys to over-pursue, the intermediate passing game would be a lot more effective if we afforded Dak some better pass protection. The OL is the scheme here and things would be going a lot more smoothly if they blocked better. Frankly I think it's amazing we've scored 89 points in three weeks with how much we've struggled up front.

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I just don't think anyone would EVER hire Linehan to be a running game coordinator, or bring him in solely to amp up a teams rushing attack, OL coach, RB coach, or anything that has anything to do with rushing the ball. There is nothing about his resume that suggests he would be the next great coach for the ground game. Or a solid choice for a team built to run. When you hire Linehan it's to amp up your passing game. It's to help Romo, Dez, and Witten.  It's because you saw Matt Stafford throw for over 5,000 yards in Detroit(ignore that the Lions couldn't/didn't run the ball). It's to build the Romo-friendly offense that was supposed to make him Peyton Manning. Then we draft an entire OL, a RB, a duel threat QB, and Romo goes down. Now our whole team is built for power and we have a coach who has little experience designing a rushing attack.

 

Nothing about that makes me think he should be in charge of a team clearly built to run. Hell our #2 WR is a better blocker than catcher.

 

There is a reason his name is in the news. And guess what it's for? Passing in an obvious run situation. Surprise!  If you read this forum though then you know this is nothing new.

 

It reminds of when we brought in all these press man CBs for Rob Ryan, got 1 good year out of Morris Claibourne and Carr, and immediately hired a DC that runs zone.  If we were the Packers Linehan would be top choice. But not for this team.

Edited by DaBoys

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Jim Skipper as a potential OC? He has quite the résumé when it comes to running backs. I'd imagine he'd be committed to a physical running game. 

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Also I don't want to discredit him for last year. Zeke barely got 20 touches a game and I wanted that to go up but overall he did well. His not running the ball enough in the Playoff game though may have cost us. Even the DC.com writers, who usually side with the team(for obvious reasons) were calling out Linehan after the loss.

 

It doesn't matter though because we aren't doing what we were doing last year. Linehan said he was going to amp up the passing game this year. Which I thought just meant playbook wise for Dak. I didn't know he was going to plant Dak Prescott firmly in the top 10 in passing attempts. He said Zeke was going to be involved more, which at first made me happy. But then I realized he meant in the passing game, which has had poor results so far.

Scott Linehans "wingin' it" with the offense last year was better than actually implemented Scott Linehan offense, for this team.

 

He had to protect his young QB so he ran the ball and added protection to the formations. Well, those heavy sets and smashmouth style really worked for this team. This 2010 Lions offense doesn't. 

 

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1 minute ago, DaBoys said:

Scott Linehans "wingin' it" with the offense last year was better than actually implemented Scott Linehan offense, for this team.

 

He had to protect his young QB so he ran the ball and added protection to the formations. Well, those heavy sets and smashmouth style really worked for this team. This 2010 Lions offense doesn't. 

 

And the fact that he's too stubborn to realize that and change his approach is a reason why he shouldn't keep his job. Same goes for Marinelli. 

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