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Lions vs Texans GDT - The Defining Game of the Quinn/Patricia Regime


TL-TwoWinsAway

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I don't hold Patricia's 2019 record against him in the bigger picture of things. Just about any team is going to struggle to win games over a stretch without their starting QB. 

"But they were under 0.500 even with Stafford".. yeah, with a difficult stretch of games in that stretch and a more likely path ahead with competent QB play during the stretch he was injured. You play a whole season not just a couple games. I don't really even bring 2019 into the equation for me when I look at whether Patricia should be back as HC or not. 

He inherited a team coming off a winning season and they didn't communicate that the roster was going to be revamped in order to fit the players they wanted for their scheme. Patricia had his struggles in year 1 (well documented, well discussed). He came in as a different coach in 2019. Still some ongoing issues, principally on the defensive side. 

Coming into 2020, a) we have our QB back... offense should be rolling and a complete non-factor; b) we've had 3 off-seasons to add guys through the draft and free agency to be the defense that you want to run. Every team is dealing with COVID, shortened off-season, etc. We aren't in year 1 with MP, it's year 3. There should be enough of a foundation in place to allow the younger guys to get up to speed. We seem to be worse on defense than we were before, guys that should be progressing into studs are becoming duds (Tracy Walker is a great example), the offense is working through some struggles and the defense might as well change their mailing address to "on the field" because they're out there so much. The Dolphins have basically done the same thing as we have and appear to be that much further ahead of us despite being 1 year behind in terms of their coaching hire. Armed with two 1st round picks they seem to be on the upswing while we're looking potentially at another rebuild. While the record is clearly important at some point, there just isn't a lot to hold onto as hope for the future. If the team was playing hard and coming off some tough losses (like the Chargers) you might be more inclined to believe that luck is going to turn around the corner. Instead of progression we seem to be regressing. That is why I don't believe that Patricia will be coming back and that he shouldn't be coming back. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Not to start an argument or anything, but are the same people hoping for losses this year still holding Patricia's 2019 record against him?

I wasn’t hoping for losses until it was painfully obvious we weren’t contending this year.  Which was early and the timing of that was based on his full portfolio of trash.  Yes last year has an impact. Yes he got/gets some leeway for Stafford being hurt, but his back to back historically bad defenses and blowing games against bad teams and QBs has continued so now I’m hoping for losing out, new GM and Coach and hopefully somehow we end up in position to get Fields.  

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33 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I wasn’t hoping for losses until it was painfully obvious we weren’t contending this year.  Which was early and the timing of that was based on his full portfolio of trash.  Yes last year has an impact. Yes he got/gets some leeway for Stafford being hurt, but his back to back historically bad defenses and blowing games against bad teams and QBs has continued so now I’m hoping for losing out, new GM and Coach and hopefully somehow we end up in position to get Fields.  

Right. That's what I was hoping for last year: once Stafford was lost, it was clear that we wouldn't be contenders. I wanted them to lose. They lost. I won't hold that against Patricia.

It seems a bit too convenient for those that support "tanking" to reference Patricia's 2019 record as some sort of blackmark against him as a coach.

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31 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I wasn’t hoping for losses until it was painfully obvious we weren’t contending this year.  Which was early and the timing of that was based on his full portfolio of trash.  Yes last year has an impact. Yes he got/gets some leeway for Stafford being hurt, but his back to back historically bad defenses and blowing games against bad teams and QBs has continued so now I’m hoping for losing out, new GM and Coach and hopefully somehow we end up in position to get Fields.  

This is where I'm at as well. Quinn and Patricia certainly put in their best efforts to turn defenders into detractors.

 

Just now, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Right. That's what I was hoping for last year: once Stafford was lost, it was clear that we wouldn't be contenders. I wanted them to lose. They lost. I won't hold that against them.

It seems a bit too convenient for those that support "tanking" to reference Patricia's 2019 record as some sort of blackmark against him as a coach.

I agree with you on that but if you look at 2018 and 2020, it's not getting better. In fact, it is getting worse. 

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One of these lacklustre teams is going to leave today with a meaningless W. 

While watching this game, all I can think of for both teams is a quote from the legendary fellow Canuck, Alex Trebek.... not the real one but the SNL version.

"Well, despite your best efforts, "v" is a number. You have answered the question correctly". 

 

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1 hour ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Not to start an argument or anything, but are the same people hoping for losses this year still holding Patricia's 2019 record against him?

I never hope for losses.

I hold Patricias record against him from the date he was hired. He has a body of work and has never achieved sufficient positive results to earn a reset or mulligan if you prefer.

He was hired to do a job with at least one stated objective. He has failed to meet the objective.

Everytime I read about Patricia there are always individuals willing to overlook his performance. Every organization, has obstacles to success. Successful organizations find ways to minimize, mitigate or overcome those obstacles. I haven’t seen an obstacle Patricia or Quinn have overcome. Obviously losing Stafford last year was a big blow however Detroit isn’t the first team to lose a starting QB and won’t be the last. Last week the Lions got humiliated by a QB starting his first game. No one would expect a Super Bowl once Stafford went down but some level of competency in coaching up a competent back up or signing a vet is a requirement. This year they signed Chase and while not ideal is certainly far better than last season. 

So, yes, I still hold 2019 against him.🤠
 

 

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52 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Right. That's what I was hoping for last year: once Stafford was lost, it was clear that we wouldn't be contenders. I wanted them to lose. They lost. I won't hold that against Patricia.

It seems a bit too convenient for those that support "tanking" to reference Patricia's 2019 record as some sort of blackmark against him as a coach.

It’s a trend.  And although we lost our QB last year, our D was atrocious, and that’s where he is supposed to be a guru.  I don’t hold the Ls against him last year, I hold the way the team played against him.  I hold the dumb coaching decisions, challenges, timeouts, bad play calling against him.  And those things happened before last year and again this year.  The blowing leads, the once again historically bad D, the lack of organization.... is why I want him gone.  So those aspects I will hold against him, not the losses of 2019.  

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54 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

This is where I'm at as well. Quinn and Patricia certainly put in their best efforts to turn defenders into detractors.

 

I agree with you on that but if you look at 2018 and 2020, it's not getting better. In fact, it is getting worse. 

I don't think it's getting worse at all. Don't get me wrong: I'm not happy with what Patricia is doing as a head coach, but he was 6-10 with a roster that quit on him in 2018, 3-5 before Stafford's injury in 2019 and is 4-6 in 2020. The Lions could absolutely finish better than 6-10 this year, especially if key pieces like Golladay and Flowers return.

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1 minute ago, Sllim Pickens said:

It’s a trend.  And although we lost our QB last year, our D was atrocious, and that’s where he is supposed to be a guru.  I don’t hold the Ls against him last year, I hold the way the team played against him.  I hold the dumb coaching decisions, challenges, timeouts, bad play calling against him.  And those things happened before last year and again this year.  The blowing leads, the once again historically bad D, the lack of organization.... is why I want him gone.  So those aspects I will hold against him, not the losses of 2019.  

We were undeniably competitive with pretty bad QBs in 2019.

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18 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

We were undeniably competitive with pretty bad QBs in 2019.

With a historically bad defense and a lot of dumb calls, no calls, play calls.  And the competitive games were again against trash teams.  If he improved and stopped making those mistakes, they would be forgiven.  But they weren’t fixed, his decision making, ability to adapt in a game, ability to gameplan, etc have not improved. Therefore you have to include all context. 

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8 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

With a historically bad defense and a lot of dumb calls, no calls, play calls.  And the competitive games were again against trash teams.  If he improved and stopped making those mistakes, they would be forgiven.  But they weren’t fixed, his decision making, ability to adapt in a game, ability to gameplan, etc have not improved. Therefore you have to include all context. 

Woah. "Historically" bad defense? Is this the part of the conversation where you start making stuff up? What part of our defense was "historically" bad?

Play calls? On offense?

Then we include all context. Two of our early season losses were extremely close losses against two of the better teams in the NFL, and five of our eight "backup QB" losses were by 8 or fewer points. We were highly competitive with some really mediocre QBs. He should get credit for that, too.

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