Week 12 - Rams vs 49ers

[BStanRamFan]

2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

You clearly weren’t watching then

And once again, a game vs an entire season

For the season, Goff is 2nd in turnovers, 24th in QBR, 19th in TD passes, 16th in completion %. At best, he's playing average and I'm being generous cause it's the holidays. 

[StLunatic88]

5 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

For the season, Goff is 2nd in turnovers, 24th in QBR, 19th in TD passes, 16th in completion %. At best, he's playing average and I'm being generous cause it's the holidays. 

The fact that you're even insinuating that Goff is anywhere near the level of play that Wentz is putting out there this year is absolutely laughable. 

It makes you look like youve buried your head in the sand and have only watched Goff play all year, creating your own echo chamber

[BStanRamFan]

Just now, StLunatic88 said:

The fact that you're even insinuating that Goff is anywhere near the level of play that Wentz is putting out there this year is absolutely laughable. 

It makes you look like youve buried your head in the sand and have only watched Goff play all year, creating your own echo chamber

Nothing in my post mentioned Carson Wentz. I provided Goff's rankings for the season. If it makes you feel better, Wentz is playing worse than Goff.

My focus and concern is on our QB, no one elses. 

[StLunatic88]

2 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

Nothing in my post mentioned Carson Wentz. I provided Goff's rankings for the season. If it makes you feel better, Wentz is playing worse than Goff.

My focus and concern is on our QB, no one elses. 

Again, you're missing the point, but thats not all too surprising on this board these days

[BStanRamFan]

1 minute ago, StLunatic88 said:

Again, you're missing the point, but thats not all too surprising on this board these days

And I'm the one burrying my head in the sand huh? 😆 

I agree about the board though. The divide here on Goff is astounding. My loyalty is to the franchise, not a particular player. I question where some people's loyalty lies when it comes to the topic of Goff's play. 

[stl4life07]

48 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

Anyone else see a pattern in Goff as the season progresses?

Sept + Oct: 23-7

Nov + Dec: 17-12

Sept+ Oct TD/INT: 49-20

Nov+Dec TD/INT: 51-26

Slight uptic in INT's and the W/L column has a larger disparity. Starts seasons strong and fades. But obviously what matters most is the playoffs. I think we get to the post season. I think Goff can win us games on the road if necessary. I think we match up better with GB/SEA/Bucs. NYG gave us a hard time, but Im really not fearful of the NFC East. I'd like to see how we play vs Ari before I pass judgment. And Saints I'm a little nervous for, but Ramsey should be able to lock down Thomas. 

 

 

I think thats the part people are missing. The end result is Goff helps the Rams win way more than he hurts the Rams and they lose. Its almost as people have to be constantly reminded that Goff has the 2nd most wins of any QB since 2017. Like literally every game the Rams play the broadcasters have to remind people of that. If Goff was a bad QB it would be hard press to win 40 games in the span of 3 and a half seasons. Ill say again Goff is a borderline top 10 QB you can say middle of the pack and when he is on his game he is a top 5 QB. 

As for matchups, I dont want to see Green Bay in the cold. Now Green Bay cant stop the run so that would be great for McVay to just run 30+ times. I just dont want under any circumstances the Rams to go play a cold weather game. I dont want to see Brady again. As bad as Brady has looked and we know he cant handle pressure well, my gut says if you fool him once you arent going to fool him twice. Yes the Saints did but it doesnt mean the Rams will too. Outside of that I dont mind playing the Saints whom the Rams beat 3x already under McVay including going to New Orleans in the NFCCG and winning. Rams arent scared of them. The Rams have beaten the Seahawks 9 out of the last 13 times including 5 out of the last 7 under McVay. So clearly the Rams match up well with the Seahawks. They also match up well with the Saints. The Cards havent beated the Rams since McVay became head coach so until I see them actually beat the Rams and it could very well be Sunday, I wont predict the Cards to beat the Rams regular season or postseason. Then the NFC East the Rams have made quick work. Part of me want Dallas to win the NFC East and the Rams get the 5th seed just so the Rams can travel to Dallas and beat them AGAIN lol. The talk for Skip would be how Goff turns it over alot and Dallas shouldve won if the refs didnt make the bad call on Gallup at the end. He is going to give the Cowboys a good shot and might even pick them straight up and so Id love for the Rams to once again beat Dallas and have Skip along with other Cowboys fans who might think they have some hope to go cry in the corner lol. So my point is, the Rams path to the NFCCG is good because the NFC is wide open and the Rams are just as good as any team that has real hopes. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by stl4life07

[StLunatic88]

9 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

And I'm the one burrying my head in the sand huh? 😆 

 

This rebuttal make literally zero sense, Especially since you just admitted you dont care about anyone else

[BStanRamFan]

Just now, StLunatic88 said:

This rebuttal make literally zero sense, Especially since you just admitted you dont care about anyone else

I care about how Goff is playing. Does Wentz having a down year make me feel any better about Goff turning over the football? No. Does Goff being #2 in turnovers to Wentz make me me feel better cause he's not number 1? No. WTF is wrong with people these days. Christ.

"Yeah Goff is playing bad, but not as bad as Wentz so slow your roll there buck-o". Dumbest $hit I've ever heard.

 

[StLunatic88]

2 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

I care about how Goff is playing. Does Wentz having a down year make me feel any better about Goff turning over the football? No. Does Goff being #2 in turnovers to Wentz make me me feel better cause he's not number 1? No. WTF is wrong with people these days. Christ.

"Yeah Goff is playing bad, but not as bad as Wentz so slow your roll there buck-o". Dumbest $hit I've ever heard.

I have to ask a half-serious question here, have you even actually watched the Rams games? Because we know you dont watch any of the others. Or do you just stare at the stats page of ESPN? 

No one is saying he isnt turning the ball over too much, but as has been pointed out they have mostly come in 2 bad games, in big chunks. But you and a group of others here come out after nearly EVERY game and act like its the worst performance at QB that has ever happened in the history of the league. 

We all agree Goff needs to be better than last week, but even when he was good against TB (a very good D), all some of you did was tear him down. And if we want to Win the Super Bowl, then he cant make some of the mistakes that some of the Good Ds have brought out in recent weeks, but to expect him to be an All Pro QB every week is getting really annoying. He isnt that guy, and most of us rational members of this form understand that.

He is going to have bad games, he is going to have great games that make you wish he could do that every week. But for the most part, he is a Top 12 QB who you can win with. He can go out there and win you a game on the final drive. But he can also turn it over multiple time and put us in a bad spot. But again the point of drawing attention to MNF was to show what true Horrible QB play is, not just a bad day with some turnovers. The Eagles never had a chance in hat game, same with the Bears on SNF and even performances like Derrick Carr's vs Atlanta. There is a difference in the level of Bad QB play, and Horrible QB play, Goff has never left us hopeless, even in his major turnover games.

[rocky_rams]

3 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

You clearly weren’t watching then

And once again, a game vs an entire season

You said bad QB play. Nobody said over the course of how many games 

[rocky_rams]

2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

First of all, the media is there to get a sound bite. They aren’t some kind of authority. And plenty of Franchise QBs have been suggested to be benched in their careers, many times over. 

If McVay had said that he actually considered it, then we could have a conversation about it, but he flat out said that was never an option. So you are blowing something completely out of proportion. 

Like who?

[J-ALL-DAY]

Here is the thing, non-elite or borderline elite QBs are going to have stretches like Goff has had. He's a fairly average to above average QB and that is perfectly fine, especially when he has as good of a OC as he does. You can win with QBs like that. Having competent QB play is something a lot of teams cannot say. So when debating Goff or Cousins or Stafford, it is a moot point. They are pretty much on the same level or one may be better than the other two, but not a huge difference. Those types of QBs will frustrate you at times but you just have to lower your expectations. Goff is good enough to still out play top QBs on any given day. His floor is going to be a lot lower than the elites and that's the difference. What Miami and SF did was take away the play action and play sticky coverage on the WRs. Honestly, a lot of non-mobile QBs are going to struggle with that. 

What the Rams and other teams in similar situations (SF included) are going to have to decide is if it is worth paying a non-elite QB that much money when you may be able to find replacements on a similar level for much cheaper? The problem is though, are you positive you can find a cheaper QB either in the draft or by trade that will give you what Goff gives you? Again, there is A LOT of bad QB play going on and it is proven Goff can take you far and you can win a SB with him. Granted, as the talent of the team dips, the QB play has to be stronger so Goff is going to have to play good ball in the playoffs to reach the SB again. 

Dating back to mid-2018, I think there is a large enough sample to know what kind of QB Goff is. Can he improve? Maybe, but while he is young, he does have a lot of playing experience and I question just how much better he can get. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

And I should add, as good as Shanahan and McVay are, I believe they have hurt Jimmy's and Goff's development a bit. They are kind of control freaks and they pretty much tell those two to who to go with the ball and their processing when option one is taken away isn't as sharp. I don't even know if I made any sense here, but I hope you guys get what I mean LOL.

[BStanRamFan]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

I have to ask a half-serious question here, have you even actually watched the Rams games? Because we know you dont watch any of the others. Or do you just stare at the stats page of ESPN? 

No one is saying he isnt turning the ball over too much, but as has been pointed out they have mostly come in 2 bad games, in big chunks. But you and a group of others here come out after nearly EVERY game and act like its the worst performance at QB that has ever happened in the history of the league. 

We all agree Goff needs to be better than last week, but even when he was good against TB (a very good D), all some of you did was tear him down. And if we want to Win the Super Bowl, then he cant make some of the mistakes that some of the Good Ds have brought out in recent weeks, but to expect him to be an All Pro QB every week is getting really annoying. He isnt that guy, and most of us rational members of this form understand that.

He is going to have bad games, he is going to have great games that make you wish he could do that every week. But for the most part, he is a Top 12 QB who you can win with. He can go out there and win you a game on the final drive. But he can also turn it over multiple time and put us in a bad spot. But again the point of drawing attention to MNF was to show what true Horrible QB play is, not just a bad day with some turnovers. The Eagles never had a chance in hat game, same with the Bears on SNF and even performances like Derrick Carr's vs Atlanta. There is a difference in the level of Bad QB play, and Horrible QB play, Goff has never left us hopeless, even in his major turnover games.

I've been a Rams fan for 26 years. I've watched every game the last 5 years when I've been able to purchase the NFL Sunday ticket. I'm active in NFL sports betting with back to back winning seasons. I watch everything. 

He's a number one overall  pick in the NFL draft. He was the highest paid quarterback at one point . He has shown the glimpses of being an MVP candidate. There's no reason we shouldn't expect him to play at an All-Pro level when he's shown he has the ability to and is being compensated as such.

I've gone on record stating I think he's in the 10-15 range so top 12 is fair, but he's teetering below that over the past few weeks and the stats support that. The poo-poo'ing on statistics to use the" GUeSs YoU DoNt wAtCh" angle is getting old. Everyone here watches, if you dont, then you probably dont spend free time on a sports forum. Let's just bury that narrative to make our board better.

The Eagles are a poor example when their O-Line has trotted out 10 different combinations through 13 weeks of football. Wentz is playing bad, but its not all on him. When Goff had poor O-Line play, we took that into consideration. For the sake of consistency, I'd say we do the same with Wentz if thats going to be your baseline. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by BStanRamFan

[jrry32]

1 hour ago, rocky_rams said:

Like who?

Brett Favre, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Drew Brees, and Matt Ryan off the top of my head.