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From "The Guy of the Guy"


KingTitan

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2 minutes ago, titans0021 said:

Waiting until a guy has enough experience to be a head coach is how you end up with Mularkey. Or Munchak. Or Ken Whisenhunt. One thing that almost every bad franchise in the NFL does is recycle coaches and go for the safe hire.

The most successful hires the last couple years are guys that were inexperienced. They’re the ones that can bring some actual innovation and change to a team.

No defensive coordinator in football was going to have any success in Houston this year. Combining a unit that’s absolutely decimated by injuries with 10 games of horrible QB play meant he had no chance.

With that said, Vrabel isn’t at the top of my list, but I’d much rather take a chance on him than some NFL coaching lifer.

They may have battled injuries, almost every unit in this league does, but they still had talent to perform better than they ultimately did. That's how I see it, anyway. Even with Watson at his best, they gave up 36 to the Patriots, 42 to the Chiefs and 41 to the Seahawks.

As for the success of green HCs in recent years, Marrone is having success while not being exactly a fresh face for the league, while both McVay and Pederson had a little more experience when they were hired, and they both came from under more impressive coaching trees: Pederson with Reid, and McVay with Gruden and Shanahan. Also, they both had more success as coordinators.

I'm not asking for Jeff Fisher or anything, but I'd like someone who showed a bit more to make me think he's worthy of a HC job, especially considering he'd be inheriting a playoff team and won't be asked to start from scratch with low expectations. Wilks for example does not have that much experience as a coordinator either, but at least his unit showed something worth putting on his resume and he's been around for a while.

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1 hour ago, Andrei01 said:

I wouldn't like Vrabel very much. You can read some nice things about him, but that HOU defensive unit underachieved pretty badly, IMO, and he lacks experience.

You can't possibly count this season with Watt & Mercilus on IR, and their offense essentially going 3 and out every drive with Savage after Watson went out. His LB's were always a top when he was a position coach. I think it has more to do with his smarts and leadership ability. His biggest question mark is who can he bring on the offensive staff? But other than that he seems like an impressive guy. 

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1 minute ago, VY said:

You can't possibly count this season with Watt & Mercilus on IR, and their offense essentially going 3 and out every drive with Savage after Watson went out. His LB's were always a top when he was a position coach. I think it has more to do with his smarts and leadership ability. His biggest question mark is who can he bring on the offensive staff? But other than that he seems like an impressive guy. 

Yeah. Every single guy we bring in is going to have something that is against them. It's going to be a matter of who you personally prefer.

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15 minutes ago, VY said:

You can't possibly count this season with Watt & Mercilus on IR, and their offense essentially going 3 and out every drive with Savage after Watson went out. His LB's were always a top when he was a position coach. I think it has more to do with his smarts and leadership ability. His biggest question mark is who can he bring on the offensive staff? But other than that he seems like an impressive guy. 

He developed some solid LBs, sure. That makes him a solid position coach, not necessarily HC material. I've read some nice things about him as well, including quotes from his players, he seems like a pretty intense guy that will demand big things from his players. Injuries are part of the game, though, and again, with the talent they had still available, they very arguably should've been a better unit. Even with Watson at QB, when they faced something resembling a competent offense, they gave up a lot of points. This may not necessarily mean he sucks, sure, but when that's all the sample size on him as a coordinator, it makes for a pretty big question mark in my eyes.

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I keep saying this... But I think people are confusing the coordinator and HC duties. We dont need an X's and O's guy... We need a HC... Who will bring in 2 coordinators and let them do their jobs. Hell help out, hell be part of things where needed, but his main role is that of a CEO.

That's why prior to the Robiskie incident of 1/14/18, I was OK with Mularkey staying as our HC.

My biggest concern with McDaniels wasy fear that he wouldn't be able to delegate those duties. For all of McVay's success, you have many more Gase-type scenarios where the results aren't good.

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1 hour ago, Andrei01 said:

They may have battled injuries, almost every unit in this league does, but they still had talent to perform better than they ultimately did.

Did they though? 

Look at this depth chart:

RDE Joel Heath Angelo Blackson    
NT Brandon Dunn Chunky Clements    
LDE Carlos Watkins      
OLB Brian Cushing Ufomba Kamalu Gimel President  
MLB Zach Cunningham Dylan Cole Jelani Jenkins  
MLB Benardrick McKinney Brian Peters    
OLB Jadeveon Clowney LaTroy Lewis    
LCB Johnathan Joseph Marcus Williams Treston Decoud  
RCB Kareem Jackson Kevin Johnson    
FS Andre Hal Kurtis Drummond    
SS Marcus Gilchrist Eddie Pleasant Ibraheim Campbell

I just don't see the talent there to perform better than they did. Especially since, for most of the season, he was paired with an offense that couldn't score or sustain drives.

But beyond all of that, there's this:

13 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said:

I keep saying this... But I think people are confusing the coordinator and HC duties. We dont need an X's and O's guy... We need a HC... Who will bring in 2 coordinators and let them do their jobs. Hell help out, hell be part of things where needed, but his main role is that of a CEO.

Coordinator experience isn't that crucial in a head coaching search, because a good HC isn't going to be acting simply as a coordinator. We need someone that's willing to hire three intelligent, quality coordinators that he will give the freedom to run their units properly. Delegating is one of the most important and underrated aspects of coaching. It's part of the reason Whiz failed so spectacularly. He wanted to run the offense and call plays and ignore his other duties while bringing his yes man over to serve as an "offensive coordinator."

Is Vrabel a real leader? How does he fit with a locker room? Does he have the right connections and intelligence to make the proper decisions with his coaching staff? Does he buy into Robinson's philosophy? Will the players respect him? Can and will he delegate some of the day-to-day stuff on the defensive side of the ball so he has the time to actually be a head coach? These are the questions that matter to me. Not his experience, and certainly not his results in his one year as a coordinator where he had both hands tied behind his back.

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19 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said:

I keep saying this... But I think people are confusing the coordinator and HC duties. We dont need an X's and O's guy... We need a HC... Who will bring in 2 coordinators and let them do their jobs. Hell help out, hell be part of things where needed, but his main role is that of a CEO.

That's why prior to the Robiskie incident of 1/14/18, I was OK with Mularkey staying as our HC.

My biggest concern with McDaniels wasy fear that he wouldn't be able to delegate those duties. For all of McVay's success, you have many more Gase-type scenarios where the results aren't good.

True, but people use a coordinator's X's and O's to identify their philosophy.

I don't care how good of a CEO coach you are if your philosophy is that of Mularkey's, I don't want you anywhere near my team. Guys that like hire guys to call plays that fall in with their line of thinking.

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1 hour ago, titans0021 said:

Is Vrabel a real leader? How does he fit with a locker room? Does he have the right connections and intelligence to make the proper decisions with his coaching staff? Does he buy into Robinson's philosophy? Will the players respect him? Can and will he delegate some of the day-to-day stuff on the defensive side of the ball so he has the time to actually be a head coach? These are the questions that matter to me. Not his experience, and certainly not his results in his one year as a coordinator where he had both hands tied behind his back.

Exactly... That's why he's received the attention and interviews he has. All reports from his time from NEP to KC to OSU and now at HOU say he is a great locker room influence and a respected leader.

So now... What is the plan with coordinators and philosophy going forward? What coordinators does he have in mind? What plan does he have for Mariota?  If he's as smart as he seems and has the plan in place, he could very well end up being our next HC.

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Thinking X's and O's don't matter much and being a CEO is more important is pretty scary to me.

You can't have it both ways, you can't say we need a Sean McVay, who literally talks to his QB about the upcoming play until the very last second possible every single snap, and also say the gameplan aspect isn't really important, we just need a guy who can motivate the troops properly. The best coach in football is a freaking genius when it comes to scheming, that's what we should be aspiring towards. We had a guy up until this morning who by all accounts was plenty motivating and yet the vast majority of us wanted him fired... or at least his whole offensive philosophy to change. 

I'd be way more comfortable getting a proven football expert. 

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Exactly. Im not looking for a guy to call the plays, but at the very least I want someone who can draw up a scheme with the best of them. Not play-calling, but the overarching philosophy.

Mularkey was a great leader of men. Now let's find someone who understands football and can aspire men to execute his creativity on the field.

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Obviously, any HC has to know football and have a scheme in mind. He has to help both the OC and DC implement them on both sides of the ball. 

I'm just saying were not hiring an OC here (well, we are, but that's not the position these candidates are being hired for). I want a HC who's going to bring in an OC and a DC and let them do their jobs. I know everyone across the NFL is on McVay's scrotum for what he was able to do so quickly in LA... But I'm saying that for every McVay, there's more examples of guys like Gase or Whiz or Hue who haven't been able to match that kinda success with a similar approach. 

The good established head coaches... The Hoodies, the Carroll's, the Tomlin's (?), etc are CEO type coaches. Has there been a HC who is also in charge of play calling that has a record of sustained success? For all of the attention on Gruden's successes, he failed in Tampa. Zimmer is probably the best and only real example... But he's credited Edwards for the great job he's done and has said he'll be turning defensive play calling duties over to him next year.

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11 hours ago, titans0021 said:

Did they though? 

Look at this depth chart:

RDE Joel Heath Angelo Blackson    
NT Brandon Dunn Chunky Clements    
LDE Carlos Watkins      
OLB Brian Cushing Ufomba Kamalu Gimel President  
MLB Zach Cunningham Dylan Cole Jelani Jenkins  
MLB Benardrick McKinney Brian Peters    
OLB Jadeveon Clowney LaTroy Lewis    
LCB Johnathan Joseph Marcus Williams Treston Decoud  
RCB Kareem Jackson Kevin Johnson    
FS Andre Hal Kurtis Drummond    
SS Marcus Gilchrist Eddie Pleasant Ibraheim Campbell

I just don't see the talent there to perform better than they did. Especially since, for most of the season, he was paired with an offense that couldn't score or sustain drives.

But beyond all of that, there's this:

Coordinator experience isn't that crucial in a head coaching search, because a good HC isn't going to be acting simply as a coordinator. We need someone that's willing to hire three intelligent, quality coordinators that he will give the freedom to run their units properly. Delegating is one of the most important and underrated aspects of coaching. It's part of the reason Whiz failed so spectacularly. He wanted to run the offense and call plays and ignore his other duties while bringing his yes man over to serve as an "offensive coordinator."

Is Vrabel a real leader? How does he fit with a locker room? Does he have the right connections and intelligence to make the proper decisions with his coaching staff? Does he buy into Robinson's philosophy? Will the players respect him? Can and will he delegate some of the day-to-day stuff on the defensive side of the ball so he has the time to actually be a head coach? These are the questions that matter to me. Not his experience, and certainly not his results in his one year as a coordinator where he had both hands tied behind his back.

Really? I mean, come on, just a couple of posts ago you were bringing up McVay and Pederson as being the prototype of a successful HC in today's NFL, and both of them are pretty good examples of micromanaging their offensive units. Sure, they put together some solid coaching staffs to help them, but they're pretty far from "lay back and trust the coordinators to run their units as they see fit and be a leader" type of coaches. 

No, he's not going to act simply as a coordinator. But he'll be asked to implement his vision, and it helps (from a fan's perspective, at least, who is not privy to interviews and 'round-the-league talk) having a track record to prove that he might have the right kind of vision in mind and has been able to implement it, having some kind of success with it, at a lower level of responsibility. 

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