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New GM and HC candidates?


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7 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Thanks man, much appreciated.

You have to love that he chose to come here. I don't know about Campbell in charge but it seems like guys want to come here and work with him. Even if he isn't the x's and o's guy (which he still could be), being able to bring together a group of people to work together towards a common goal is powerful. It's the reason a CEO gets paid big money. 

Mickey Loomis spoke highly of Dan Campbell and said this very thing. He is a man and coach players/coaches will come to work with. I find it amusing that everyone wants to judge his hire based off of a 30 second sound byte. Lions didn't hired him for biting knee caps. He's qualified. He wasn't my top choice, but I'm loving what it being built here right now. 

Edited by Louis Friend
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On 1/24/2021 at 5:53 PM, Sllim Pickens said:

I get your cynicism based on years of failure, but not sure why so disgruntled over these changes.  You wanted changes, you wanted experience, and they went and got that to go along with some of the brighter young minds coming up.  All of these people accepted jobs knowing their role, so while a former GM is now an assistant, that is no different than what SF had with Lynch and Mayhew and so many other former GMs around the league.   

We brought in an OC with head coaching experience who just helped a rookie QB have a very solid year.  Again this is common for head coaches who have been fired to go back to being coordinators.

I think more than anything, this is Rod Wood admitting he needed help and is reorganizing the structure to allow people to focus on their strengths and further support the folks at the top. I am skeptical of Dan Campbell, I am skeptical of Holmes, but there are enough solid voices in the building now that it gives me so much more optimism than just a simple hire someone else new at GM and let them sink just like all of the others. This is the first time we have seen significant movement within the organization.  

Yes, I certainly wanted changes. Yes, I certainly wanted experience.

Exactly how much impact did Lynn have on Herbert? I expect the QB coach and OC had far more to do with his development. I may be wrong. I don’t think any of us know for sure. 

I like the Dorsey hire. I’m excited that Staley is coming. I like the Glenn hire but am reserved on him  as DC. I think Holmes has been good at adding talent in L.A. 

My favourite hire was Campbell until I watched his press conference.

The entire process just strikes me as odd. Hiring inexperienced people then bringing in people with more experience as SME’s will make collaboration more than awkward.

I like a number of the hires I’m just really concerned about so many people in the organization in their role for the first time. A bunch of people will have to leave their ego at the door. I’m also VERY concerned about final authority on the draft, trades and free agent additions. It’s all well and good for Wood to say it’s collaborative but someone still has to have final authority. It’s also one thing to suggest it’s collaborative but unless the individuals know and understand the concepts of CDM it can be a disaster. 

They may have great success but they might also simply raise the Lions to mediocrity. I have a hard time believing they will fare worse than the dynamic duo. 

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2 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

Yes, I certainly wanted changes. Yes, I certainly wanted experience.

Exactly how much impact did Lynn have on Herbert? I expect the QB coach and OC had far more to do with his development. I may be wrong. I don’t think any of us know for sure. 

I like the Dorsey hire. I’m excited that Staley is coming. I like the Glenn hire but am reserved on him  as DC. I think Holmes has been good at adding talent in L.A. 

My favourite hire was Campbell until I watched his press conference.

The entire process just strikes me as odd. Hiring inexperienced people then bringing in people with more experience as SME’s will make collaboration more than awkward.

I like a number of the hires I’m just really concerned about so many people in the organization in their role for the first time. A bunch of people will have to leave their ego at the door. I’m also VERY concerned about final authority on the draft, trades and free agent additions. It’s all well and good for Wood to say it’s collaborative but someone still has to have final authority. It’s also one thing to suggest it’s collaborative but unless the individuals know and understand the concepts of CDM it can be a disaster. 

They may have great success but they might also simply raise the Lions to mediocrity. I have a hard time believing they will fare worse than the dynamic duo. 

I’m confident you’re either overthinking the collaboration aspect or not realizing that a number of organizations run this same exact way. You have Jacksonville that has the HC heavily involved in their GM search. You have coaches who ARE the GMs. I don’t think Rod Wood is going to be as involved as you think and I think that’s the reason for the Spielman hire. The inexperienced people in charge of experienced people is also a non issue imo. Wasnt for Schwartz when he had Gunther and Linehan below him. It’s not for the Giants who has Garrett under Joe Judge. Happens every year. 

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10 hours ago, HashtagFTW said:

I’m confident you’re either overthinking the collaboration aspect or not realizing that a number of organizations run this same exact way. You have Jacksonville that has the HC heavily involved in their GM search. You have coaches who ARE the GMs. I don’t think Rod Wood is going to be as involved as you think and I think that’s the reason for the Spielman hire. The inexperienced people in charge of experienced people is also a non issue imo. Wasnt for Schwartz when he had Gunther and Linehan below him. It’s not for the Giants who has Garrett under Joe Judge. Happens every year. 

I agree.  I think Wood put all of these people in place because he doesn't want to be the decision maker on these things.  I think people will know their roles. I think the experience is very similar to other organizations and as long as they know the hierarchy it should be just fine.  Maybe Dorsey who has a history of being difficult runs thin and is out in a few years but that was enough to get Cleveland a playoff win.  

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I have no idea how the inner workings are going to work for this administration.  When these hires first happened, Holmes and Campbell, all I could think was "here we go again". But over the past couple of weeks as the Lions have scattered in experience amongst the front office, I've become pessimistically optimistic. 

There are two ways I can see this going, the one that Die Hard points out where there are too many cooks in the kitchen and no one has the final say causing chaos and creating a power struggle. We are putting a bunch of egos into one room, I mean, what could go wrong?

The other, and the one that I'm hoping happens, is this has gone from a top down structure to a council style of management.  I've always been fond of these. You put the people in the room, including the coach, all arguments are given and the majority rules. The majority can be however you set it up.  I've seen this work and been part of set ups like this and I prefer them over any other style.  It also becomes a lot easier to plug and play as you lose someone, or in the unfortunate time you need to fire someone.  If it plays out like this, I will be very happy and look forward to seeing what happens.

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On 1/25/2021 at 8:35 PM, Louis Friend said:

Mickey Loomis spoke highly of Dan Campbell and said this very thing. He is a man and coach players/coaches will come to work with. I find it amusing that everyone wants to judge his hire based off of a 30 second sound byte. Lions didn't hired him for biting knee caps. He's qualified. He wasn't my top choice, but I'm loving what it being built here right now. 

Might be the first time we're on the same team.(Outside of fan-hood).

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1 hour ago, HashtagFTW said:

Am I seeing this right? We only have 2M in cap space for this year?

Yeah, 2.9

There are going to be a lot of guys cut for cap space, Stafford will free up 14 million. The following season we're able to cut/release more guys and more guys just come off the books. This offseason is basically embracing the draft/rebuild. Maybe a 2 or 3 solid signing on defense cause it's so bad.

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13 hours ago, HashtagFTW said:

I’m confident you’re either overthinking the collaboration aspect or not realizing that a number of organizations run this same exact way. You have Jacksonville that has the HC heavily involved in their GM search. You have coaches who ARE the GMs. I don’t think Rod Wood is going to be as involved as you think and I think that’s the reason for the Spielman hire. The inexperienced people in charge of experienced people is also a non issue imo. Wasnt for Schwartz when he had Gunther and Linehan below him. It’s not for the Giants who has Garrett under Joe Judge. Happens every year. 

You’ve listed some examples of teams that haven’t accomplished much using the same model. We also aren’t in the room with these guys so suggesting it works well is no more valid than my suggestion that it could be problematic. You mentioned Schwartz. How do we know how it worked? We weren’t behind closed doors and the measure is on field performance which was terrible. 

Having spent 15 years as a management representative on an international CDM team I can tell you that collaborative methods are far more useful in product development etc. I can also tell you that collaboration is a method that requires someone to have final say. Where it has the potential to implode is the weight given to voices around the table. I mentioned ego because you have experienced guys, used to being in charge. Now they are SME’s. Let’s say Dorsey sees it one way. Spielman another and Holmes has his own idea. Who makes the call? If the call contradicts Dorsey and Spielman, how do they react? It isn’t a model to revert to majority rule and there will be competing interests.

I’m not suggesting it won’t work. I’m saying it’s a difficult model to use successfully for a football team. 

We used the CDM method to maximize North American runway acceptance rates, maximize airspace usage and manage what’s know as the severe weather avoidance program. We were pioneers and I can tell you there is a point where collaboration stops and authority is used.

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On 1/25/2021 at 8:35 PM, Louis Friend said:

Mickey Loomis spoke highly of Dan Campbell and said this very thing. He is a man and coach players/coaches will come to work with. I find it amusing that everyone wants to judge his hire based off of a 30 second sound byte. Lions didn't hired him for biting knee caps. He's qualified. He wasn't my top choice, but I'm loving what it being built here right now. 

Well, given he’s an inexperienced head coach all we have to go by, to this point is how he has presented himself publicly. 

Find me a Lions hire that wasn’t spoken highly of when they were brought on board. 

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On 1/27/2021 at 9:24 AM, diehardlionfan said:

You’ve listed some examples of teams that haven’t accomplished much using the same model. We also aren’t in the room with these guys so suggesting it works well is no more valid than my suggestion that it could be problematic. You mentioned Schwartz. How do we know how it worked? We weren’t behind closed doors and the measure is on field performance which was terrible. 

Having spent 15 years as a management representative on an international CDM team I can tell you that collaborative methods are far more useful in product development etc. I can also tell you that collaboration is a method that requires someone to have final say. Where it has the potential to implode is the weight given to voices around the table. I mentioned ego because you have experienced guys, used to being in charge. Now they are SME’s. Let’s say Dorsey sees it one way. Spielman another and Holmes has his own idea. Who makes the call? If the call contradicts Dorsey and Spielman, how do they react? It isn’t a model to revert to majority rule and there will be competing interests.

I’m not suggesting it won’t work. I’m saying it’s a difficult model to use successfully for a football team. 

We used the CDM method to maximize North American runway acceptance rates, maximize airspace usage and manage what’s know as the severe weather avoidance program. We were pioneers and I can tell you there is a point where collaboration stops and authority is used.

You make a strong argument. That said, I believe this is how the structure is going to work;

Spielman is there to advise Wood/Hamp Ford and will have no real say in player acquisition.

Disner is the cap and business guru.

Dorsey is there for guidance to Holmes to act as a mentor type.

Agnew is the assistant to Holmes to provide additional support with regard to GM tasks.

The real collaboration will be between GM/HC as it relates to player acquisition and development. I do not personally believe that all these people will be making the decisions. They will provide input where their respective expertise calls for it.

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