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2021 NBA Draft Thread


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12 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Zero pressure from the media or public, sure. But I'd say the kids that went the G-League route were under more pressure overall. They had to play against grown arse men that wanted to take their heads off. And unlike someone that goes the college route they all had to enter the draft, so the few guys who had so-so seasons can't go back to school for another year and improve their draft status, they literally have to enter the draft now. 

A guy like Isaiah Todd for example, if he went to Michigan like originally planned, had a so-so year then returned to school and went #20 next year. He would've gotten a guaranteed 4 yr/$12.5M contract with a $6.2M qualifying offer in his 5th year. Since Todd will likely be a 2nd round pick he won't even get a guaranteed contract coming into the league. And will probably get a 1 year 2-way deal worth like $450k. 

Cade's brother got promoted from middle school head coach to a $400k assistant at Oklahoma State, a program that just had a coach go to prison for funneling money to the parents of recruits. Cade probably cleared a million dollars.The scope of public scrutiny wasn't really on Cade that much either, how many Oklahoma State games were on prime time? And throughout the season all we heard was how bad his teammates were, lol. 

Yeah, the amount of pressure Green faced was astronomical IMO.  He was one of the first to go that route and did so in a covid year causing less exposure and opportunity.  He made the choice with an unknown other than knowing he had to go pro after one year.  He played against people older than him and many of them drafted last year and many others who have played and are scraping to get back to the league.  He could have went and out athleted everyone in college like Edwards did and been safe to know he at least would get exposure and first round looks but chose a tougher route with so many questions.  I like the mindset of going to go play with the big boys as much as he can to prepare for the league. 

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So the Warriors continue being "active" in trade talks about a week away from the draft. I feel like something needs to happen in the next few days or else it seems like they will be keeping their picks...at least for the time being. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Kirill said:

@NYRaider you convinced me Jalen green should go first overall. I’d still take Cade second tho

I like Cade and think he'll be a good pro, just don't think that he's going to be as great as everyone else says, but we see this every year. ESPN has to promote college basketball and what better way to get people to tune in to games, especially if the top guy is playing somewhere like LSU/UGA/Ok State, then to hype him up and drive a narrative that he could be a LeBron/Luka type of player? 

For me it comes down to this, what is typically the swing factor for a guy being a good player vs an elite player? Almost every elite player in the league has plus level athleticism. Of course there are a few exceptions but when I watch Cade play I see an average athlete by NBA standards. People will blame his team being bad but even in isolation situations he was having issues beating guys off the dribble consistently. And for a guy that's supposed to be a Luka Doncic type of playmaker, he averaged more turnovers than assists. 

I know college stats aren't end all be all but Jalen averaged 18 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists on 47% FG/37% 3FG/83% FT playing against professionals. Cade averaged 20 points, 6 rebounds, 3.5 assists on 44% FG/40% 3FG/85% FT playing in the Big 12. 

Green will need to get stronger and tighten up his handle but if he does those things I think he's a guy that can be a scoring champ in the league.

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14 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Yeah, the amount of pressure Green faced was astronomical IMO.  He was one of the first to go that route and did so in a covid year causing less exposure and opportunity.  He made the choice with an unknown other than knowing he had to go pro after one year.  He played against people older than him and many of them drafted last year and many others who have played and are scraping to get back to the league.  He could have went and out athleted everyone in college like Edwards did and been safe to know he at least would get exposure and first round looks but chose a tougher route with so many questions.  I like the mindset of going to go play with the big boys as much as he can to prepare for the league. 

And the G-League had to pivot their entire season, they were never planning to play in a bubble setting. He also got to work with NBA coaches, trainers, veterans in NBA style practices. And in their games they implemented an NBA style offense, it's literally the closest thing to NBA basketball you can get. Even Edwards going to UGA trying to out athlete everyone he was still super inefficient. Green averaged 18 ppg on 47%/37%/83%, dude is super skilled. 

A G-League executive on Green

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(Green’s) going to be an incredible player. … I heard some negative stuff I didn’t like in the bubble. No one knows these high school dudes, so you hear it. These G league guys and these two-way guys, they have to treat (Ignite) seriously. They were like, “man, what’s with this dude?” Then all of a sudden, he goes on, like, a streak, five in a row, he was hitting 3s, athletic. And you look at him, and he’s just 17 or 18 years old. He’s going to be a steal for a team. He’s going to be a legit two-guard.

NBA veteran Bobby Brown on Green

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During the season, the veterans were impressed by Green’s fearlessness and demeanor. “He wasn’t trying to back down from nobody,” Brown said. “He wanted all the smoke from everybody.”

There was lots of trash talk that came the Ignite’s way this year. Some of it was because of the way the team was formed, while others weren’t fans of how much money some people on the team made. Brown, Johnson and Jack have seen just about everything in the NBA, so they knew how their opponents would feel about them. There was a sense guys like Green shouldn’t be getting this type of treatment this early.

Green didn’t want to hear it.

“I’m trying to shut all that noise up,” Brown recalled Green saying. “Just roll the ball out and hoop, forget all the talking.”

 

 

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10 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

So the Warriors continue being "active" in trade talks about a week away from the draft. I feel like something needs to happen in the next few days or else it seems like they will be keeping their picks...at least for the time being. 

I could see a deal happening on draft night. Once they make the picks they lose a ton of value. 

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5 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

3-reasons-the-Pistons-should-consider-ta

I like this. Feel like I will be disappointed though.  I'll still be really happy with Cade but Green is so intriguing. 

Ryen Russillo mentioned on his podcast last week that every NBA Exec and FO personnel he spoke with said without hesitation or deviation, that Cade's the #1 pick. He was even shocked in how consensus it was because he too likes Green's potential, but to people who are in the know, Cade is a no brainer. 🤷‍♂️

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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/how-jalen-green-cade-cunningham-compare-in-the-early-race-for-no-1-in-the-2021-nba-draft/

Interesting article from over a year ago (April 2020) talking about Green vs Cade as the #1 pick this year.  It shows those who claim Cade has been the guy for 3 years obviously weren't paying attention.  It actually has @NYRaider's argument about the least successful one and done players picked #1 recently have come from non-blue blood programs.  But did give the edge to Cade in the article because of polish but I think Green exceeded expectations in the G League and Cade at most met expectations at OSU. 

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30 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

Ryen Russillo mentioned on his podcast last week that every NBA Exec and FO personnel he spoke with said without hesitation or deviation, that Cade's the #1 pick. He was even shocked in how consensus it was because he too likes Green's potential, but to people who are in the know, Cade is a no brainer. 🤷‍♂️

Cade/Green kind of reminds me of the Beasley/Rose debate years ago. Throughout the college basketball season Beasley was considered the consensus #1 pick, putting up huge scoring numbers at Kansas State. Then Derrick Rose led Memphis to the title game, had great pre-draft workouts, and then ended up going #1. But even leading up to the draft a lot of people still had Beasley graded out as a "no brainer" to be the #1 pick. 

I'm not saying that Cade will be Beasley or that Green will be Rose but it's easy to understand why they'd view the guy they saw play 30+ times in college last year would be the consensus #1 player. In that same draft OJ Mayo was ranked #3 by pretty much everyone and Westbrook was considered a fringe lottery pick and a reach at #4 when the Thunder drafted him. 

Chad Ford also made a pretty good point about Cade being almost like the anti-LaMelo Ball. Last year when LaMelo was in the draft there were so many unknowns and no one really knew if he was good or not. So when he ended up having a really good rookie year, people were like damn this kid can play. Cade will enter the league on the opposite end of that spectrum, he'll have to be a great player from the jump to meet expectations. 

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55 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

3-reasons-the-Pistons-should-consider-ta

I like this. Feel like I will be disappointed though.  I'll still be really happy with Cade but Green is so intriguing. 

not gonna lie it would be a little weird having two guys wear 41

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5 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/how-jalen-green-cade-cunningham-compare-in-the-early-race-for-no-1-in-the-2021-nba-draft/

Interesting article from over a year ago (April 2020) talking about Green vs Cade as the #1 pick this year.  It shows those who claim Cade has been the guy for 3 years obviously weren't paying attention.  It actually has @NYRaider's argument about the least successful one and done players picked #1 recently have come from non-blue blood programs. But did give the edge to Cade in the article because of polish but I think Green exceeded expectations in the G League and Cade at most met expectations at OSU. 

Nice find and yes I think that people really forget how much hype Jalen had coming out of HS. And that started during his senior year when he transferred to Prolific Prep, a new private boarding school. While Cade was playing at Monteverde Academy, probably the best HS basketball program in America. They've produced players like Joel Embiid, RJ Barrett, Ben Simmons, D'Angelo Russell and now Cade Cunningham and Scottie Barnes. 

Cade supporters cite his polished offensive game as the reason that he's better than Green. But fail to ignore that he scored at pretty much the same rate as Cade on better efficiency against better competition. Like Cade is so much more polished than Jalen that he averaged 2 more ppg on 43% FG while Green shot 47% FG playing against professionals? Imagine what he's going to be doing when he finally does add that polish. 

One of my favorite pieces of the article

Quote

That could serve as another speed bump for him: competition. The G League is full of grown men, but it's not the only competition he will face. As ESPN reports, the venture Green is committed to features competition from NBA academies, foreign national teams and G League teams. The competition will be tough and physical. Green's a prolific talent, but the odds of him dropping 20 every night the same way Zion Williamson did at Duke are slim to none.

Jalen averaged 18 ppg against strictly G-League competition. And this years G-League talent pool was the highest it has ever been because more teams sent guys because it was such a short season in the bubble, lol.

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1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

ESPN has to promote college basketball and what better way to get people to tune in to games

lol the espn pushing players narrative again

 

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

I know college stats aren't end all be all but Jalen averaged 18 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists on 47% FG/37% 3FG/83% FT playing against professionals. Cade averaged 20 points, 6 rebounds, 3.5 assists on 44% FG/40% 3FG/85% FT playing in the Big 12. 

 

jalen harris (who's that, idk) is also a rookie in the gl and pput up the same #s. malachi flynn (was he even drafted in the 1st?) is another rookie and put up 21 and 6. gl stats are silly since the incentive isn't really to win gms 

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18 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Cade/Green kind of reminds me of the Beasley/Rose debate years ago. Throughout the college basketball season Beasley was considered the consensus #1 pick, putting up huge scoring numbers at Kansas State. Then Derrick Rose led Memphis to the title game, had great pre-draft workouts, and then ended up going #1. But even leading up to the draft a lot of people still had Beasley graded out as a "no brainer" to be the #1 pick. 

I'm not saying that Cade will be Beasley or that Green will be Rose but it's easy to understand why they'd view the guy they saw play 30+ times in college last year would be the consensus #1 player. In that same draft OJ Mayo was ranked #3 by pretty much everyone and Westbrook was considered a fringe lottery pick and a reach at #4 when the Thunder drafted him. 

Chad Ford also made a pretty good point about Cade being almost like the anti-LaMelo Ball. Last year when LaMelo was in the draft there were so many unknowns and no one really knew if he was good or not. So when he ended up having a really good rookie year, people were like damn this kid can play. Cade will enter the league on the opposite end of that spectrum, he'll have to be a great player from the jump to meet expectations. 

are we now acting like beasley wasn't a ******* monster at k state

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Another interesting thing to take into consideration, outside of the Anthony Bennett draft, the #1 pick has always been more or less the consensus #1 prospect on everyone's board throughout most of the college season. But how often has the guy that is picked #1 gone on to be the best player from his draft class?

2010: John Wall, I'd argue that Paul George is the best player from this class. 

2011: Kyrie Irving, I'd say Kawhi Leonard is definitely the best player from this class. 

2012: Anthony Davis, he's definitely the best player from this class. 

2013: Anthony Bennett (outlier), but Giannis is hands down the best player from this class. 

2014: Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid is definitely the best player from this class. 

2015: Karl Anthony-Towns, I'd say as of now Devin Booker is the best player from this class. 

2016: Ben Simmons, it's debatable but you can make a case for Jaylen Brown, Jamal Murray, or Brandon Ingram.

2017: Markelle Fultz, I'd say Donovan Mitchell/Jayson Tatum are the best players from this class. 

2018: DeAndre Ayton, Luka Doncic is by far the best player from this class. 

2019: Zion Williamson, he's probably the best but you can also make a strong argument for Ja. 

2020: Anthony Edwards, LaMelo Ball had a better rookie season. 

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