Forge Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 9 minutes ago, NinerNation21 said: LOL I read that wrong. I thought you ment trading Jimmy to the Pats and drafting a rookie in the 3rd or going with Rosen as the starter. My mistake. Basically, I Don't think the team is desperate enough to make any sort of bold moves at the position at this point, which is neither good or bad, truthfully. I'd shoot my shot, but I get why they may not go that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Lol, I was just waiting until the Darnold rumors started. Already got the Wentz rumor yesterday. And of course 49ers twitter will try to convince themselves going to Darnold or Wentz is the smart thing to do ha. yuuuuuuuuuuup. It's already started. That all 22 guy that you posted in the draft forum did a thread on Darnold (was kind of funny because one of the first replies was like, "that was a horrible decision" on the throw he posted lol). Akash has started pumping the "shanny once said this about Darnold" as have some others. If Darnold cost a 4th? I'm fine with that. I think he costs a legit asset (second round) and I have no interest in parting with that for a guy that has looked flat out awful. His situation wasn't that much worse than Minshew's in Jax. He actually had the better pass protecting offensive line, yet Minshew managed to look better while not quite looking like a competent starter himself lol. People really putting a lot of love into the fact that he just has good physical talent, despite never living up to said talent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John232 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, Forge said: Basically, I Don't think the team is desperate enough to make any sort of bold moves at the position at this point, which is neither good or bad, truthfully. I'd shoot my shot, but I get why they may not go that way. What fans and pundits tend to not take into account, mostly because we can't, is the chemistry/Locker room factor. If trading Jimmy G pisses off the entirety of the team, even if it's a valid move done in good faith, it could still sour a lot of players. I don't think our staff has an issue making those hard choices when they need too, they've done it before, but it's something every team balances out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, John232 said: What fans and pundits tend to not take into account, mostly because we can't, is the chemistry/Locker room factor. If trading Jimmy G pisses off the entirety of the team, even if it's a valid move done in good faith, it could still sour a lot of players. I don't think our staff has an issue making those hard choices when they need too, they've done it before, but it's something every team balances out. I actually think that fans tend to overrate it. I think most players understand that it's a business. I don't think that they're not going to give a new qb a fair shake or something. If the new QB is a ****** or something, I get how that would impact the team, but I don't think that's typical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Forge said: yuuuuuuuuuuup. It's already started. That all 22 guy that you posted in the draft forum did a thread on Darnold (was kind of funny because one of the first replies was like, "that was a horrible decision" on the throw he posted lol). Akash has started pumping the "shanny once said this about Darnold" as have some others. If Darnold cost a 4th? I'm fine with that. I think he costs a legit asset (second round) and I have no interest in parting with that for a guy that has looked flat out awful. His situation wasn't that much worse than Minshew's in Jax. He actually had the better pass protecting offensive line, yet Minshew managed to look better while not quite looking like a competent starter himself lol. People really putting a lot of love into the fact that he just has good physical talent, despite never living up to said talent. The most annoying part has been the type of PR game Schefter has been doing for certain agents/teams. It needs to stop, he is too great to do that. I get they all have to do something, but he puts a lot of fire to these rumors and others piggy back off of him. Darnold has been bad flat out. I don't disagree his supporting cast has been less than ideal, but he hasn't been good and that's a fact. He is a project where ever he goes as the new coaching staff would have to build him back up. Why would you want to trade a good asset for that? Why would you want to take a chance on that when you have a team good enough to compete? Doesn't make sense at all. A 4th rounder would be very good for him, even a 3rd rounder. It's kind of like when we traded for Gabbert for a 4th rounder I believe. You can give up those types of picks for former 1st round QBs but stop trying to act like Darnold will be this savior or something. 49ers twitter is truly terrible. So many of them try to look farrrr too much into every single report or quote from Shanahan. They all think they have sources which is hilarious and then will convince themselves that any available QB in this system would take the offense to elite status. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John232 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Forge said: I actually think that fans tend to overrate it. I think most players understand that it's a business. I don't think that they're not going to give a new qb a fair shake or something. If the new QB is a ****** or something, I get how that would impact the team, but I don't think that's typical. Eh, I still disagree at least when it comes to QB. I do think most players get and agree that "intangibles" get overrated by khaki wearin, polo collar dads on twitter, but I think when it comes to very close calls like the team currently has with Jimmy, i think this stuff can often be the deciding factor. Every other position it really is pretty irrelevant unless it's some god tier player or some player who is very good and in some extremely established leadership role. But it's the NFL so no one is untouchable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinerNation21 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 14 minutes ago, Forge said: Basically, I Don't think the team is desperate enough to make any sort of bold moves at the position at this point, which is neither good or bad, truthfully. I'd shoot my shot, but I get why they may not go that way. I would agree. It seems like Lynch is always keeping his eye on the market and talking deals, but isn't desperate to pull the trigger, which is a good thing IMO. Being desperate and cavalier with your assets is how you get the 2020 Texans situation. I feel like I'm in the minority on this, but this whole narrative that Jimmy is trash is very overblown. But, it is the time of year for that sort of thing. Can we upgrade our QB spot this offseason? Of course. Can we make a deep playoff run with Jimmy at the helm? Yes. Both things can be true at the same time. Like I stated earlier, the shot I'd take would be trading up for Wilson. I think Wilson will be a very special QB in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 minute ago, NinerNation21 said: I feel like I'm in the minority on this, but this whole narrative that Jimmy is trash is very overblown. But, it is the time of year for that sort of thing. He's not trash...but he's it's not unfair to say he may be closer to #20 in the league than he is the top 10. (though I think he's almost right in the middle there). I think that tier is largely pretty big and they are all to some degree of interchangeable. I think Goff is probably the line of demarcation. Some people would take Goff, some would take Jimmy, but thats a pretty close argument. That's probably where he's at and how do most people feel about goff? I'd definitely slot him behind Cousins, Carr, Stafford, Tannehill, etc. I do believe that we have the worst QB in the division (I still don't think Kyler is fully developed as a passer, but the legs make him far more effective), so we'd have some ground to make up there. With Jimmy at the helm, we can make a deep run in the right circumstances. Do I think it happens next year? Probably not. I don't think the roster around him will be good enough to be honest which doesn't have much to do with him outside of his salary. As the roster erodes, the importance of the QB will go up. That's where I'm at right now, personally. We've hit the convergence where moving forward, I don't know if Jimmy is good enough as a QB to make up for the losses of the roster around him. That's why I understand both keeping him for another year, and looking around. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, Forge said: He's not trash...but he's it's not unfair to say he may be closer to #20 in the league than he is the top 10. (though I think he's almost right in the middle there). I think that tier is largely pretty big and they are all to some degree of interchangeable. I think Goff is probably the line of demarcation. Some people would take Goff, some would take Jimmy, but thats a pretty close argument. That's probably where he's at and how do most people feel about goff? I'd definitely slot him behind Cousins, Carr, Stafford, Tannehill, etc. I do believe that we have the worst QB in the division (I still don't think Kyler is fully developed as a passer, but the legs make him far more effective), so we'd have some ground to make up there. With Jimmy at the helm, we can make a deep run in the right circumstances. Do I think it happens next year? Probably not. I don't think the roster around him will be good enough to be honest which doesn't have much to do with him outside of his salary. As the roster erodes, the importance of the QB will go up. That's where I'm at right now, personally. We've hit the convergence where moving forward, I don't know if Jimmy is good enough as a QB to make up for the losses of the roster around him. That's why I understand both keeping him for another year, and looking around. A large part of this is how the SB ended and how he only threw 8 passes in the NFCCG. That changed the opinion of him to many people, especially outsiders. Because just before the playoffs he was getting a good amount of credit for his performance vs Seattle in week 17 and just his entire regular season. Getting rid of Jimmy is okay and understandable....BUT, no way in hell you can say for certain that guys like Darnold or Wentz are upgrades over him since we don't know their mental psyche going forward. You are taking chances on their talents not off what they are putting on film. I think drafting one of the talented rookie QBs would be awesome but short from getting Watson/Dak, you are not improving your team with another QB. You can argue getting Darnold at a much cheaper contract would allow you to sign more players but what if he's just a bad QB? Then the talent really makes no difference. Shanny/Lynch will continue to make calls for all the QBs since that is what they do, but I doubt they seriously consider making a move for any of them. I mean everyone is saying they didn't think the Niners would have put #12 up on the table for Stafford and you damn sure know they wouldn't have put two future firsts on the table for him so what makes anyone think they will put up a decent offer for Wentz? 49ers twitter needs to just take a step back, it's getting embarrassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinerNation21 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 14 minutes ago, Forge said: He's not trash...but he's it's not unfair to say he may be closer to #20 in the league than he is the top 10. (though I think he's almost right in the middle there). I think that tier is largely pretty big and they are all to some degree of interchangeable. I think Goff is probably the line of demarcation. Some people would take Goff, some would take Jimmy, but thats a pretty close argument. That's probably where he's at and how do most people feel about goff? I'd definitely slot him behind Cousins, Carr, Stafford, Tannehill, etc. I do believe that we have the worst QB in the division (I still don't think Kyler is fully developed as a passer, but the legs make him far more effective), so we'd have some ground to make up there. With Jimmy at the helm, we can make a deep run in the right circumstances. Do I think it happens next year? Probably not. I don't think the roster around him will be good enough to be honest which doesn't have much to do with him outside of his salary. As the roster erodes, the importance of the QB will go up. That's where I'm at right now, personally. We've hit the convergence where moving forward, I don't know if Jimmy is good enough as a QB to make up for the losses of the roster around him. That's why I understand both keeping him for another year, and looking around. I would agree with that. I do think Jimmy is around the #15 spot, but I'd actually lump Cousins and Jimmy together and maybe Carr, but he might be slightly ahead of those two. They're all pretty similar IMO. I'd put Stafford above this group to be closer to the #10 spot, but I don't think Stafford is the "superstar" that Twitter is currently making him out to be. I'd prefer to keep Jimmy and trade up for Wilson. Let Jimmy lead us to the playoffs in 2021, then move on after next year and go with Wilson in 2022. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudyZ Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 18 hours ago, NcFinest9erFan said: 49ers called the Eagles, in order to assess value, just to work out a three-way trade with the texans... you know... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcFinest9erFan Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 https://twitter.com/LombardiHimself/status/1359208096325906436?s=19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Getting rid of Jimmy is okay and understandable....BUT, no way in hell you can say for certain that guys like Darnold or Wentz are upgrades over him since we don't know their mental psyche going forward. You are taking chances on their talents not off what they are putting on film. I can at least understand the Wentz thing to a degree. At least he has the tape to support he's capable of it. But woof...the Darnold thing is rough. The only appeal to him is upside + lower cap hit, and that's a serious gamble. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted February 9, 2021 Author Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, NinerNation21 said: I feel like I'm in the minority on this, but this whole narrative that Jimmy is trash is very overblown. But, it is the time of year for that sort of thing The NFL is a what have you done for me lately, and his 2020 season was piss poor. Lets not gloss over how bad it was. It was baaaad I wrote a long post in NFL general about my frustrations with him this year. This is the main source of my frustration here: "I know that any coach who watched the film in 2020 would be able to tell him that his footwork was the root of a lot of his issues. He had bad footwork at times in 2019 as well, but was coming off the ACL so I was willing to give him a chance to improve upon it thinking that he could really attack it now that he wasn't rehabbing his knee. So the fact that he made zero progress during the season, and SIGNIFICANTLY regressed from the season before, in an offseason where he was expected to do all of this work on his own, really makes me question his motivations and overall work ethic. Yeah, I said it. Dude didn't put in the work during quarantine when there literally was nothing else to do and it was painfully obvious. I just can't imagine coaches not telling him after the Superbowl "go do some foowork drills until you get it right" " Obviously I dont know for sure what he was doing in quarantine, but the clear cut regression in his footwork (from start to finish last year mind you, so the injury is no excuse. Week 1 at home against ARI had absolutely horrendous footwork), coupled with the fact this was a seemingly obvious deficiency of his in 2019, to me, means he didnt put in the work. I like Jimmy, but I am not waiting around for him to magically become the guy he was in 2017 again. That is ancient history at this point. So like others have said, giving him 1 more year while also improving the QB room as a whole, is an acceptable outcome of this whole thing. Personally, I would just as soon ride with a rookie. Lets save the $$$ we would pay him, because honestly 2020 Jimmy isnt worth 25m. 2019 Jimmy is, but only barely. He had some nice games, but some other bad ones where we blew teams out and didnt need him, which is fine, but we cant expect that to happen all the time. If a lot of those pop passes to Deebo would be classified as runs, Garoppolos stats would have looked worse than they do (and they dont look good as it stands). I would bet that Jimmy would have averaged less than 100 yards passing a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Akash is bringing up some interesting tidbits on Twitter regarding Jimmy and the offensive line. We all know that we don't have a great offensive line, but his sack rate in each of the last two seasons has been higher than his pressure rate. So last year he was pressured fifth most in the league, however his sack rate was worst in the NFL. In 2019, he was pressured at the 21st highest rate, but was sacked the third most. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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