2021 Off-season FO / Coaching / Saleh to the Jets - Page 9

[Forge]

7 minutes ago, Justone2 said:

The hardest part just is what else do you do. If you replace him with someone thats worse you probably pick earlier but as the decision makers you probably are looking at a new job next year and chance you get someone better is slim. In terms of cost no doubt there are better options than locking yourself into these type of guys because you need the roster around them to be better. On the other hand while QB is by far the most important position if you don't surround them with the right talent they still get you nowhere. What i dislike the most is how we locked ourselves in the trio of Jimmy, Mullen and Beathard for a few years and now taking shots are bringing some new talent up from the bottom outside some really longshot UDFA types. I truly believe drafting a QB every year is worth it. You won't hit all the time but when you do you either have one for yourself or you can flip them for something better than you used to get them.

Personally, I think the FO is being myopic with regards to improvement. It feels like they are looking for a "better quarterback" and in truth they should be seeking a more cost effective one. I don't need the QB room to get better necessarily. Case Keenum isn't better than Kirk Cousins, yet the Vikings have largely not been good with Cousins. REally, it was just their floor that was better on a year to year basis. 

I have beat the drum for Minshew just because I think he's the most obvious candidate (meh sort of starting stats, getting better...very ugly eye test...but super cheap, improved system & talent), but there are others who have been mentioned before as well. It's all a risk though. Like, for me, Minshew + 25 million in additional talent around him >>>> Jimmy G with 25M less talent. But I can't say for sure that it would be the end result. I don't think Minshew is as good Jimmy, I just think that they are close enough that in that calculation, I'd take Minshew. Minshew is the most extreme example, but it could also be Darnold + 20 million additional talent, or maybe Winston + 15 million? Other guys as well, of course. 

But again, it's all a risk. 

[49ersfan]

I think its the the case that the Niners are sticking with Jimmy because they don't view any of the alternative as upgrades. 

The only QB's "available" i think the FO would place over Jimmy is Lawrence, Prescott, Cousins, & Watson. Lawrence, Prescott, & Cousins are impossible to get for now, for varying reasons. So that leaves Watson. 

I know Peters scouted Zach Wilson in person, but i think Lynch also admitted that he went to Mahomes pro day back in '17 to scout him in person as a smokescreen. The fact that none of the beat writers who are plugged into the team have suggested a rookie QB makes me think its not an option. I think the top 4 QB's are going in the first few picks, but even if Lance or Fields fell to us, i feel like we'd trade back more than anything. 

For better or worse, we'll stick with Jimmy (unless we can somehow land Watson). I'm all in on beefing up the rest of the team, getting a good backup QB option, and seeing where 2021 leads us. If Jimmy busts, then QB1 is top priority in 2022. 

[Forge]

4 minutes ago, Forge said:

Personally, I think the FO is being myopic with regards to improvement. It feels like they are looking for a "better quarterback" and in truth they should be seeking a more cost effective one. I don't need the QB room to get better necessarily. Case Keenum isn't better than Kirk Cousins, yet the Vikings have largely not been good with Cousins. REally, it was just their floor that was better on a year to year basis. 

I have beat the drum for Minshew just because I think he's the most obvious candidate (meh sort of starting stats, getting better...very ugly eye test...but super cheap, improved system & talent), but there are others who have been mentioned before as well. It's all a risk though. Like, for me, Minshew + 25 million in additional talent around him >>>> Jimmy G with 25M less talent. But I can't say for sure that it would be the end result. I don't think Minshew is as good Jimmy, I just think that they are close enough that in that calculation, I'd take Minshew. Minshew is the most extreme example, but it could also be Darnold + 20 million additional talent, or maybe Winston + 15 million? Other guys as well, of course. 

But again, it's all a risk. 

I should also mention that a lot of this goes out the window if they extend and restructure Jimmy G to work with his cap hit. That said, I don't want to do that because I"m not *that* comfortable with Jimmy LOL. 

[Justone2]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

Personally, I think the FO is being myopic with regards to improvement. It feels like they are looking for a "better quarterback" and in truth they should be seeking a more cost effective one. I don't need the QB room to get better necessarily. Case Keenum isn't better than Kirk Cousins, yet the Vikings have largely not been good with Cousins. REally, it was just their floor that was better on a year to year basis. 

I have beat the drum for Minshew just because I think he's the most obvious candidate (meh sort of starting stats, getting better...very ugly eye test...but super cheap, improved system & talent), but there are others who have been mentioned before as well. It's all a risk though. Like, for me, Minshew + 25 million in additional talent around him >>>> Jimmy G with 25M less talent. But I can't say for sure that it would be the end result. I don't think Minshew is as good Jimmy, I just think that they are close enough that in that calculation, I'd take Minshew. Minshew is the most extreme example, but it could also be Darnold + 20 million additional talent, or maybe Winston + 15 million? Other guys as well, of course. 

But again, it's all a risk. 

I think the last thing is the biggest one why you see teams signing guys like Cousins and Goff to big deals. You know what you have in them and while that mostly average losing them might make them look worse. I am all for blowing up our QB room this year but i totally get the risk involved with it for the FO and coaching staff and if we have a healthy Jimmy next year i have no doubt we can make the play-offs even if we have to patch a Trent Williams shaped hole.

[Forge]

Just now, Justone2 said:

I think the last thing is the biggest one why you see teams signing guys like Cousins and Goff to big deals. You know what you have in them and while that mostly average losing them might make them look worse. I am all for blowing up our QB room this year but i totally get the risk involved with it for the FO and coaching staff and if we have a healthy Jimmy next year i have no doubt we can make the play-offs even if we have to patch a Trent Williams shaped hole.

Yep. I think one day, some offensive genius is going to have the balls to do it. He's just going to moneyball the hell out of his position until he finds the right guy. I remember Bill Barnwell writing an article about how McVay should do that because Goff didn't look like "the" guy (and this was after two pretty damn good years) like 2 years ago or something. 

[Justone2]

8 minutes ago, Forge said:

Yep. I think one day, some offensive genius is going to have the balls to do it. He's just going to moneyball the hell out of his position until he finds the right guy. I remember Bill Barnwell writing an article about how McVay should do that because Goff didn't look like "the" guy (and this was after two pretty damn good years) like 2 years ago or something. 

Would have to take someone that either is the owner/GM or a really strong HC with a ton op job security to make that call. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Not that this is a surprise and has been reported by pretty much everyone, but:

Quote

 

Ahkello Witherspoon, a third-round pick in 2017, appears likely to move on as an unrestricted free agent. Witherspoon was a constant source of frustration for coach Kyle Shanahan over the past three seasons.

Emmanuel Moseley, scheduled to be a restricted free agent, should return to play a significant role. The 49ers are expected to make an effort to re-sign versatile veteran Dontae Johnson.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/jason-verrett-or-kwaun-williams-49ers-must-prioritize-offseason-targets

Love how Maiocco refers to Donate Johnson as versatile L-O-L. Versatile exactly how? He just must be a really nice guy that everyone likes. To be versatile, you have to be good at something....And what exactly is he good at? Not a good STs player and definitely not a good corner. Hilarious. 

[Justone2]

4 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Not that this is a surprise and has been reported by pretty much everyone, but:

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/jason-verrett-or-kwaun-williams-49ers-must-prioritize-offseason-targets

Love how Maiocco refers to Donate Johnson as versatile L-O-L. Versatile exactly how? He just must be a really nice guy that everyone likes. To be versatile, you have to be good at something....And what exactly is he good at? Not a good STs player and definitely not a good corner. Hilarious. 

He is versatile is being bad. You have the slightly bad ST's version. The worse nickel version and the terrible outside corner function. Really no idea what this team sees in that guy.

[John232]

I am basically Donte Johnson but without the incredible work ethic, athleticism and drive to become a professional football player. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Maiocco thinks only one of K'wann or Verrett return. He played out a scenario where Moseley can potentially be the starting nickel and the team drafts a corner with the 12th pick to start opposite Verrett. 

Doesn't think we go QB at #12 but rates Lance higher than Fields. Interesting. 

A RB may be taken at some point in the draft, but not in the first round.....Though Matt has it on "good authority" they would have taken CEH at #31 if they didn't trade up for Aiyuk. 

 

[Forge]

1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Maiocco thinks only one of K'wann or Verrett return. He played out a scenario where Moseley can potentially be the starting nickel and the team drafts a corner with the 12th pick to start opposite Verrett. 

Doesn't think we go QB at #12 but rates Lance higher than Fields. Interesting. 

A RB may be taken at some point in the draft, but not in the first round.....Though Matt has it on "good authority" they would have taken CEH at #31 if they didn't trade up for Aiyuk. 

 

The play action trait was a really good reveal from Matt

[J-ALL-DAY]

13 minutes ago, Forge said:

The play action trait was a really good reveal from Matt

Someone from the organization clearly told him that as well. He wouldn't have picked up on it on his own. So I think it is fair to say that IF the team goes with a QB in the first round and both Lance/Fields are available, it is likely Shanny goes with Lance and not Fields.

Maiocco throws these subtle news without actually making them into reports or anything but you just have to pay close attention. He knows FAR more than he lets on or reports, that's for sure. I'm going to be paying close attention to his draft news the next few months and try to pick up on some things of how the team thinks. 

His record of who the team drafts in the first round was always really good. I don't remember if he mentioned Kinlaw last year but it wouldn't surprise me if he did. Remember how he just threw out a tweet after Armstead signed wondering if that meant if Buckner would be retained? Like dude knew EXACTLY what was going on but did it in a way where it wouldn't make all the headlines and a short while later, Buckner indeed gets moved. Maiocco admitted on his podcast that he had been hearing since the combine that the team was willing to part ways with Buckner after they couldn't come to an agreement on his APY. 

[Forge]

8 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Someone from the organization clearly told him that as well. He wouldn't have picked up on it on his own. So I think it is fair to say that IF the team goes with a QB in the first round and both Lance/Fields are available, it is likely Shanny goes with Lance and not Fields.

Maiocco throws these subtle news without actually making them into reports or anything but you just have to pay close attention. He knows FAR more than he lets on or reports, that's for sure. I'm going to be paying close attention to his draft news the next few months and try to pick up on some things of how the team thinks. 

His record of who the team drafts in the first round was always really good. I don't remember if he mentioned Kinlaw last year but it wouldn't surprise me if he did. Remember how he just threw out a tweet after Armstead signed wondering if that meant if Buckner would be retained? Like dude knew EXACTLY what was going on but did it in a way where it wouldn't make all the headlines and a short while later, Buckner indeed gets moved. Maiocco admitted on his podcast that he had been hearing since the combine that the team was willing to part ways with Buckner after they couldn't come to an agreement on his APY. 

One thing that is notable with Fields is that shanny has access and experience with him through the qb collective. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

One thing that is notable with Fields is that shanny has access and experience with him through the qb collective. 

Overstated IMO. I mean I'm sure it is good that Shanny has experience with Fields but I love how there is a select few trying to put two and two together there and thinking Fields is the "guy" for Shanny.

I've more inclined to believe Maiocco here and I've stated multiple of times and Lance would be the one that intrigues Shanny the most. He is raw so Shanny can coach him up the way he wants to and probably feels he has more potential than any QB in the draft. I'm just not convinced that is the way the team wants to go when they feel like they can still compete for a SB. 

[Forge]

8 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Overstated IMO. I mean I'm sure it is good that Shanny has experience with Fields but I love how there is a select few trying to put two and two together there and thinking Fields is the "guy" for Shanny.

I've more inclined to believe Maiocco here and I've stated multiple of times and Lance would be the one that intrigues Shanny the most. He is raw so Shanny can coach him up the way he wants to and probably feels he has more potential than any QB in the draft. I'm just not convinced that is the way the team wants to go when they feel like they can still compete for a SB. 

It's not overstated.  It means he has first hand knowledge in working with him. Seeing how he understands things, processes, takes criticism, etc

I'm not saying that it makes him more likely to lean towards selecting fields, I'm saying he is more informed on fields to make a decision, including preferring Lance