oakdb36 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 15 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Yes... because the Raiders have proven for decades they are a bad team. And they've continued to show they don't know how to close out games against inferior opponents. They've had several games in the last decade where they beat a playoff contender.... how many playoffs appearances have they had as a result? How many games have they won post Thanksgiving the last 2 years? Win the team starts winning meaningful games and making playoffs.... I might care about the 7 meaningless wins against playoff teams on Carrs record. Yes because we're having a discussion about history here. Proceed with your lazy clichés. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: People need to look at that KC game in a vacuum. If they play in KC in front of 70K+ fans, that game is a lot different. They didn't basically "beat them twice" either. The Browns game was an anomaly, high winds and the Browns played without Chubb. A clock is right twice a day. It's the performances against the Falcons, Jets, Chargers, Broncos (week 17), etc. that tell you more about who this team is. This is such a double sided bullcrap argument. I can list NO, KC, the Browns, the first Chargers game, first Broncos game. This argument was just complete garbage. They played in our house too and we stayed competitive, who knows what it would be like to play us in a packed dome. Garbage argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 3 hours ago, SilverNBlackFan said: Lol Well you need to take into consideration the fact that he still needs to learn the offense. The fact that he is 32 is another factor. He isn't going to be able to maintain his mobility deeper into his 30s as well. Unless we want him to get killed like Gannon. I mean he might be a substantial upgrade if he came in knowing the offense over a single offseason but I'm not counting on that. Plus you need to take into consideration the need to build chemistry between him and the players. Another offseason with no offseason would hinder the team's development on offense. Just too many variables that I'd be comfortable with. Plus again, I don't think it's happening. I think the Seahawks have to pay him a part of his contract the next three years no matter who he's playing for. I saw it on Twitter somewhere, don't care to go looking for it now. All this speculation about other QBs coming to our team is just crazy. I don't see any of these moves happening that list the Raiders as potential suitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 This was another double post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Just now, Jerry said: Well you need to take into consideration the fact that he still needs to learn the offense. The fact that he is 32 is another factor. He isn't going to be able to maintain his mobility deeper into his 30s as well. Unless we want him to get killed like Gannon. I mean he might be a substantial upgrade if he came in knowing the offense over a single offseason but I'm not counting on that. Plus you need to take into consideration the need to build chemistry between him and the players. Another offseason with no offseason would hinder the team's development on offense. Just too many variables that I'd be comfortable with. Plus again, I don't think it's happening. I think the Seahawks have to pay him a part of his contract the next three years no matter who he's playing for. I saw it on Twitter somewhere, don't care to go looking for it now. All this speculation about other QBs coming to our team is just crazy. I don't see any of these moves happening that list the Raiders as potential suitors. You bring up decent points, but the guy is a undeniable elite QB. The elite QBs can overcome alot of the variables you brought up and just flat out get it done. Coming here he would have the best Oline he has had maybe in his career, a top 3 TE, and the best RB he has had since Lynch. Also for as much crap as we give Gruden, and deservedly so, the guy is a good offensive mind and would be the best playcaller Wilson has ever played for. His skillset is basically everything Gruden wants in a QB. I have little doubt they would click right away. I doubt it happens as well, but yeah it'd be a substantial upgrade and that's no shade or disrespect towards Carr. Just a testament to how good Wilson really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 22 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: You bring up decent points, but the guy is a undeniable elite QB. The elite QBs can overcome alot of the variables you brought up and just flat out get it done. Coming here he would have the best Oline he has had maybe in his career, a top 3 TE, and the best RB he has had since Lynch. Also for as much crap as we give Gruden, and deservedly so, the guy is a good offensive mind and would be the best playcaller Wilson has ever played for. His skillset is basically everything Gruden wants in a QB. I have little doubt they would click right away. I doubt it happens as well, but yeah it'd be a substantial upgrade and that's no shade or disrespect towards Carr. Just a testament to how good Wilson really is. Yeah I mean I agree. I just want to address the defense. I really don't care if we go Watson or Carr and would completely understand why. I just don't want people to act like it ends with the QB trade. We need defense. We need it bad. Our entire offseason other than maybe two positions on offense should be geared towards the defense. We need to bring in as much talent as humanly possible for our defense. I want our defense completely revamped, retooled, and slotted with elite talent if possible. That's just me. I understand the focus on the QB position, but I just hope we don't stop there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 2 hours ago, SilverNBlackFan said: You bring up decent points, but the guy is a undeniable elite QB. The elite QBs can overcome alot of the variables you brought up and just flat out get it done. Coming here he would have the best Oline he has had maybe in his career, a top 3 TE, and the best RB he has had since Lynch. Also for as much crap as we give Gruden, and deservedly so, the guy is a good offensive mind and would be the best playcaller Wilson has ever played for. His skillset is basically everything Gruden wants in a QB. I have little doubt they would click right away. I doubt it happens as well, but yeah it'd be a substantial upgrade and that's no shade or disrespect towards Carr. Just a testament to how good Wilson really is. We're gonna have the same argument without a defense they're doomed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 3 hours ago, oakdb36 said: Yes because we're having a discussion about history here. Proceed with your lazy clichés. It's a lazy cliché to call a shoe a shoe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Jerry said: This is such a double sided bullcrap argument. I can list NO, KC, the Browns, the first Chargers game, first Broncos game. This argument was just complete garbage. They played in our house too and we stayed competitive, who knows what it would be like to play us in a packed dome. Garbage argument. It's garbage because you don't agree? Do I have that right? I think it's a valid argument to say a bad team who collapsed in back to back years shouldn't be looked at as anything more than what their record indicates. Who cares that you beat KC, NO, Cleveland and almost KC again when you limped to an 8-8 finished and missed the playoffs.... again. When this team can beat teams when it matters in December, then maybe we can talk about who they beat. Right now... it's meaningless. A couple wins in another losing seasons. As relevant as Bruce Gradkowski beating the mighty Steelers. Edited February 26, 2021 by big_palooka 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Heard Peter King say that Raiders as an organization is treading water. 7 and 8 wins is a mediocre below average team. Best thing to do is shake up the team and make a bold move like getting Wilson. You are what you are in this league. Almost beating someone don't matter. The wins vs the good teams dont mean anything because we were still bad. Big difference when Wilson walks into the building and says I'm here for Super Bowls. Carr may say that but tough to get behind him with no playoff games under his belt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: It's garbage because you don't agree? Do I have that right? I think it's a valid argument to say a bad team who collapsed in back to back years shouldn't be looked at as anything more than what their record indicates. Who cares that you beat KC, NO, Cleveland and almost KC again when you limped to an 8-8 finished and missed the playoffs.... again. When this team can beat teams when it matters in December, then maybe we can talk about who they beat. Right now... it's meaningless. A couple wins in another losing seasons. As relevant as Bruce Gradkowski beating the mighty Steelers. Well you're only looking at their losses and completely disregarding their wins. I understand we didn't make the playoffs but your argument is that they're essentially a 5-11 team. There are posters like you who see the cup half empty and there are those like me who see the cup half full. It wasn't a losing season, yeah we didn't make the playoffs but at least we're improving. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 On 2/26/2021 at 7:28 PM, Jerry said: Well you're only looking at their losses and completely disregarding their wins. I understand we didn't make the playoffs but your argument is that they're essentially a 5-11 team. There are posters like you who see the cup half empty and there are those like me who see the cup half full. It wasn't a losing season, yeah we didn't make the playoffs but at least we're improving. I have no problem with optimism and respect that is the side you lean on. I don't see a team that improved. I see a team that collapsed in 2019. Spent a ton of money on the defense, got worse and collapsed again in 2020. I see a team that needed a 2pt conversion against Denver week 17 to limp to 8-8. An improvement from 2019 when they failed the same 2pt attempt and fell to 7-9. 2021... they have to push reset again on defense with an entire new staff tasked with salvaging a lot of bad draft picks and FA signings. Derek is keeping this team from being 5-11 right now. But I don't see how they can rebuild this defense to help him quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 On 2/26/2021 at 9:32 AM, bucksavage1 said: In that 1st KC win, the defense shut out KC aside from a garbage time TD in the 2nd half. It was the best overall performance of everyone including Carr, Defense and Ruggs Browns game was an anomaly due to the wind but again the defense had a great performance stopping the Browns Saints game Carr and the O played great people always say that our D gets tired because we go 3 and out to much and use that to blame Carr. maybe the browns game, the D played well because Carr had the ball for 37 mins. If Carr can be the reason they play bad, in theory he should then be able to be the reason they played well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: people always say that our D gets tired because we go 3 and out to much and use that to blame Carr. We averaged 6.3 plays per drive which was 9th in the league so they would be wrong. 44 punts, 2nd least in the league. Edited February 28, 2021 by oakdb36 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: We averaged 6.3 plays per drive which was 9th in the league so they would be wrong. lol good look up! Our O really had some things working this season. We can move the ball, we just really really struggle in the Redzone. Have to get Waller more involved there. Stop taking him off the field to go into jumbo set. Worse case scenario, at least have waller as a decoy! There are times, when it felt like we went 3 and out to often, but from your stat, Im guessing every fan / team feels that way at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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