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The Carr dilemma in 2021


The Carr Dilemma 2021  

40 members have voted

  1. 1. What to do with Carr in 2021

    • Option 1: extend Carr
      21
    • Option 2: trade Carr
      6
    • Neither
      13


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2 hours ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Carr has improved but realistically he is still probably the 6th best QB in the AFC, maybe 7th, depending on where you stand on Lamar Jackson. And there are young guys like Burrow and Herbert who project to be better than Carr soon as well.

I'm not paying a non superstar QB who needs a high paid Oline intact 35+ million. That's too much money invested on the O to not be elite. Which we aren't yet on O. If he is open to taking a shorter term Tannehill type, I would be maybe open to that but it really depends on how he finishes the year. Can't collapse again. The real QBs play their best ball late.

How many building block Qb's would you say with certainty are better than Carr to build around?  Obviously a QB like Brady at 43 would not be ahead of Carr on a list.

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1 hour ago, agarcia34 said:

Carr is your QB going into next year and should not offer an extension. He is on one of the better contracts in the NFL that is something that you take advantage going into next year. After the 2021 season and you have a better understanding what the cap will look like post COVID then do the right thing and extend him before 2022 season. All this depends on his level of play next year, but no reason to think we wont continue to see improvements in his game. 

Worst thing the Raiders can do is extend him after this season and pay more money when you dont need to and use up cap space that can be put into the DL. Cap will be about 20 million less next year. Cant use that on Carr at this time.

The point of extending Carr is to free up cap room before free agency next year in order to sign impact players. Extending Carr will allow the Raiders to push up to half of his 2021 figure into a guaranteed extension. Given the Raiders' cap situation, they will likely have to make another move in addition to cutting Williams, Joyner, and Mariota in order be be players in free agency.

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3 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

A few things need to be addressed here.  

My first question is for Rich and I want to know where you would list Carr as a building block QB and who you would definitively put in front of him?

Also risk would have to be assed here.  Risk for Mayock moving on from Carr most specifically.   If he does move on from Carr which I think would be the incorrect move, think of how risky of a proposition that is for Mayock.  Trading a QB who has preformed at an MVP level for an unproven commodity could be career suicide.  You do realize that if Carr is traded to a team like the Bears and he takes them deep into the playoffs, which I have said for years would happen, how much pressure that would put on Mayock by both the media and public perception. 

My point is that QB that was drafted to replace Carr has to be an upgrade or else Mayock will get fired, it's as simple as that.  If that QB turns out to be a complete bum like Winston. MM, Rosen (the list can go on and on) Myock will have sealed his own fate and will never work as a GM again.  No way he would take a risk like that when he has a MVP caliber QB already on the roster who has at least 5 top quality seasons left. 

I think Carr is a franchise QB. I think I was clear in my opening post about why a trade might be worthwhile. If Mayock or Gruden see a Mahomes or Watson-like talent in the draft, I wouldn't be mad if they decided to go in that direction. Of course it's risky, but the Raiders are in a division with one the greatest QB talents of all time who will be in his prime for the next decade.

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9 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

How many building block Qb's would you say with certainty are better than Carr to build around?  Obviously a QB like Brady at 43 would not be ahead of Carr on a list.

Why do you keep asking this? Carr is not in the young building block tier of QBs. He's 30 and in the tier of vet QBs with the likes of Tannehill, Stafford, Cousins etc.

He is a good QB who is mostly a finished product at this point in his career. 

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34 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Why do you keep asking this? Carr is not in the young building block tier of QBs. He's 30 and in the tier of vet QBs with the likes of Tannehill, Stafford, Cousins etc.

He is a good QB who is mostly a finished product at this point in his career. 

This. Thank you sheesh 

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24 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Why do you keep asking this? Carr is not in the young building block tier of QBs. He's 30 and in the tier of vet QBs with the likes of Tannehill, Stafford, Cousins etc.

He is a good QB who is mostly a finished product at this point in his career. 

Cousins, Tannehill, and Stafford are all 32.  Derek Carr is 29.  Just FYI.  Carr still has a good 5-6 years left at least, those three players may retire in the next 3-4 years (if we go with them all retiring between 35-36 which is typical).  Kind of matters.  We still have plenty of time to develop a better defense and team in general around DC while we continue to push towards the playoffs.  

Frankie's question should be answered.  I wonder how Herbert will fair if he ever has to play without his two upper-tier WRs he has on the outside.  Watson without a defense can't win games.  What will KC look like if the cap is reduced for the next 2-4 years with Mahomes' 50M per season contract?  Josh Allen is good but still hasn't won the big one either.  Also, Allen's defense and WRs are much better than what we have.  Lamar Jackson has fallen back to earth as well.  Kyler Murray is small, got hurt, and is now struggling in the later part of the season.  Wasn't Tua just pulled from the last game?  Miami is averaging 100 yards less on offense since Tua took over the starting QB position.  Rodgers, Ben R., Brees, Brady, Rivers, and A. Smith are all retiring in the next couple of season.  Only Rodgers may play more than 2 more years.  I don't want Cam Newton, Baker Mayfield, Bridgewater, or Goff over Carr.  Simply put, if I could swap QBs, I would probably pick Watson, J. Allen, Russell Wilson, maybe R. Tannehill, and Maybe Herbert or Burrow just mainly due to their potential and salary against the cap.  I would not take Mahomes simply due to his soon to be 50M a year hit against the cap (COVID-19 may impact KC's salary cap and destroy their chances of ever having a decent team around Mahomes).  So 6 other QBs in the entire NFL that I would rather have. 

No matter how you swing it, he's currently one of the top 12 QBs in the entire world.  I just can't justify in my head not extending him.  We can always draft a QB sure, but to just trade him and hope for the best and end up in a worse situation, I'd rather not.  I would rather us build our defense through the draft and FA to develop into a top 10 unit, see how DC and the top 10 defense does, and then go from there.  If we can't make deep playoff runs with a top 10, or even 15 defense, and DC leading our offense, then yeah sure, get rid of DC.  But right now our offense is clicking on all cylinders most games (Tampa and Atlanta kicked our teeth in, I blame Jon Gruden and his inability to win on offense against defenses with awesome LBs). 

Again, I'm keeping DC and building the defense.  Final answer. 

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3 hours ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Why do you keep asking this? Carr is not in the young building block tier of QBs. He's 30 and in the tier of vet QBs with the likes of Tannehill, Stafford, Cousins etc.

He is a good QB who is mostly a finished product at this point in his career. 

Carr is 29 and not a QB who achieves his success with mobility, now I am not saying he is immobile like Brady but he's somewhere in the middle.  Theoretically Carr is the type of QB who can play at a high level into his late 30's, which gives him 7 or 8 prime years left.  That is why I ask that question and that is why he is still a building block QB. 

The more pertinent question is why so many people avoid the question every time I ask it?

The one who have been bold enough over the last few years have put names on the list ahead of Carr such as Darnold, Rosen, Winston, Wentz, Goff, and Trashbinski to name a few.  Now they looks like they have no clue when it comes to the game they love to watch every Sunday.

Edited by Frankie2Gunz
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Ask again after week 16. If he rebounds plays well down the stretch and gets the team in the playoffs, I might say you extend while feeling you can get him at a moderate price.

If he hits a wall, then it's a different discussion. Either way, he's your QB in 2021, but at some point it has to be decided if you can win in the playoffs with him.

I'm all for keeping options open at QB in any event. 

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4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Ask again after week 16. If he rebounds plays well down the stretch and gets the team in the playoffs, I might say you extend while feeling you can get him at a moderate price.

If he hits a wall, then it's a different discussion. Either way, he's your QB in 2021, but at some point it has to be decided if you can win in the playoffs with him.

I'm all for keeping options open at QB in any event. 

We gave him weapons in exchange for a rebound in his personal performance. He, outside of the bad game every QB has once or twice a year, came through on that despite the inconsistency in the weekly lineup. 

Now, give him a D that can get him into the playoffs in the first place. Otherwise, it's an impossible task to determine whether he can wiin there or not. If not for our D, we would easily be anywhere from 8-3 to 10-1 right now based on our O's performance. Instead, we're 6-5 and on the outside looking in. Atlanta was on the offense, but the rest has decidedly been our abhorrent performance on the side of the ball Carr has no part of, other than bailing them out.

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26 minutes ago, Dessie said:

After the job this staff has done on the FA’s on offense like Bryant, A.Brown T. Brown, Williams and on defense with Nassib, Collins, Littleton, Joyner etc, we think they will be able to get a QB better than DC ?

But, but, but, they found Agholor!

And Kwit!

And drafted Jacobs!

And Mullen!

And drafted a bunch of other guys who have grossly underachieved. 

Look, I like Gruden. But the guy also staked his reputation on Garcia's corpse, Gradkowski, and Chris Simms, along with a smattering of Brian Griese and Josh Johnson. No way in hell I trust him to pick a better QB from the scrap heap. And a rookie, regardless of whom, is going to be a 2-3 year learning curve for a team that Gruden/Mayock fanboys assured us would be true contenders by 2020-2021 with the move to Vegas. 

Short of Aaron Rodgers wanting out of Green Bay at seasons' end, we keep Carr and be grateful that the days of Jawalrus, the ginger midget, and Aaron Brooks aren't what we're still saddled with. 

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