The Carr dilemma in 2021

[Frankie2Gunz]

4 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

But, but, but, they found Agholor!

And Kwit!

And drafted Jacobs!

And Mullen!

And drafted a bunch of other guys who have grossly underachieved. 

Look, I like Gruden. But the guy also staked his reputation on Garcia's corpse, Gradkowski, and Chris Simms, along with a smattering of Brian Griese and Josh Johnson. No way in hell I trust him to pick a better QB from the scrap heap. And a rookie, regardless of whom, is going to be a 2-3 year learning curve for a team that Gruden/Mayock fanboys assured us would be true contenders by 2020-2021 with the move to Vegas. 

Short of Aaron Rodgers wanting out of Green Bay at seasons' end, we keep Carr and be grateful that the days of Jawalrus, the ginger midget, and Aaron Brooks aren't what we're still saddled with. 

Most fans are truly clueless and think QB's like Russ just grow on trees.  They must be either new fans who were never here during the last 30 years or are casual fans who don't understand football and think the NFL is just like Madden.  Those who want to move on from Carr need to have a legitimate solution and "just draft a QB", has to be the most lazy and uneducated answer I could possibly think of. 

I agree about Gruden and have never been a fan of his hiring.  He is certainly an upgrade over our prior coaches over the last 20 years but by no means is he one of the superior O minds of the NFL.  I remember the Art Shell and Mike White days hahaha

The ginger midget literally made me LOL 

[Jerry]

17 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Most fans are truly clueless and think QB's like Russ just grow on trees.  They must be either new fans who were never here during the last 30 years or are casual fans who don't understand football and think the NFL is just like Madden.  Those who want to move on from Carr need to have a legitimate solution and "just draft a QB", has to be the most lazy and uneducated answer I could possibly think of. 

I agree about Gruden and have never been a fan of his hiring.  He is certainly an upgrade over our prior coaches over the last 20 years but by no means is he one of the superior O minds of the NFL.  I remember the Art Shell and Mike White days hahaha

The ginger midget literally made me LOL 

We beat the Chiefs.  We have a top 10 offense.  One of the most efficient as well.  We just put up 31 again.  We've had so many 30+ games on offense this season, it's impressive.  The only thing Jon Gruden isn't superior at is firing Guenther.  If he can learn how to fire Guenther and hire a legitimate DC, we will be playoff contenders every year.  We just gave up 28 to the Jets.  We all know the problem, just waiting for the solution now.

Also, ICO DC, 3 TDs, 1 rushing TD, 1 INT, 200 yards and 2 TDs to Waller.  DC beat the Jets on the east coast in 39 degrees at 10AM.  I understand they suck, and yes the Jets may have just thrown the game at the end, but he got it done.  Guenther is freaking killing me.  Darnold looking legit every time he plays us.

[Frankie2Gunz]

Just now, Jerry said:

We beat the Chiefs.  We have a top 10 offense.  One of the most efficient as well.  We just put up 31 again.  We've had so many 30+ games on offense this season, it's impressive.  The only thing Jon Gruden isn't superior at is firing Guenther.  If he can learn how to fire Guenther and hire a legitimate DC, we will be playoff contenders every year.  We just gave up 28 to the Jets.  We all know the problem, just waiting for the solution now.

Also, ICO DC, 3 TDs, 1 rushing TD, 1 INT, 200 yards and 2 TDs to Waller.  DC beat the Jets on the east coast in 39 degrees at 10AM.  I understand they suck, and yes the Jets may have just thrown the game at the end, but he got it done.  Guenther is freaking killing me.  Darnold looking legit every time he plays us.

Darnold looking legit when he plays us is all anyone needs to know about how pathetic our D is.  Darnold is a bum and our D makes him look average which is saying a lot. 

[ronjon1990]

3 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Most fans are truly clueless and think QB's like Russ just grow on trees.  They must be either new fans who were never here during the last 30 years or are casual fans who don't understand football and think the NFL is just like Madden.  Those who want to move on from Carr need to have a legitimate solution and "just draft a QB", has to be the most lazy and uneducated answer I could possibly think of. 

I agree about Gruden and have never been a fan of his hiring.  He is certainly an upgrade over our prior coaches over the last 20 years but by no means is he one of the superior O minds of the NFL.  I remember the Art Shell and Mike White days hahaha

The ginger midget literally made me LOL 

Yeah. I mean, between Gannon's rebound seasons and Carr, who already has most of our franchise records, we saw: 

Rick Mirer, Andrew Walter, Kerry Collins, Marques Tuiasosopo, Aaron Brooks, Josh McCown, Daunte Culpepper, Jamarcus Russell, Charlie Frye, Bruce Gradkowski, Jason Campbell, Kyle Boller, Carson Palmer (who many fans practically despised), Terrelle Pryor, Matt McGloin, and Matt Flynn come through. 

Before that, we had George, Hostetler, and a couple more no-namers. 

You'd think that we were Green Bay going from Favre to Rodgers or even New England going from Bledsoe to Brady prior to 2015, the way some are so ready to cast Carr out. 30 years of being a Raider fan, and the bulk of my memory is that list above- the list of starting Raiders QBs. Outside of MAYBE Carson Palmer, Carr is leaps and bounds better than any of them. 

Why are the Browns so perennially bad? Look at their QBs over the years, and they DID try to draft them high. The Jets? The Jaguars? What, we're going to pull a Dan Snyder and trade the house for Trevor Lawrence? No, we aren't. He can still bust. He could blow a shoulder. He could pull a Luck and randomly retire. He's never taken an NFL snap or played a consistent slate of games against equal talent. We would be stupid to do so. Gonna trade for Prince Harry who just got yanked, despite so many singing his praises? Gonna trade for Sam Darnold? 

We're desperate for a real defense that can stop the worst offenses in the league, we aren't desperate for a QB. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

7 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Yeah. I mean, between Gannon's rebound seasons and Carr, who already has most of our franchise records, we saw: 

Rick Mirer, Andrew Walter, Kerry Collins, Marques Tuiasosopo, Aaron Brooks, Josh McCown, Daunte Culpepper, Jamarcus Russell, Charlie Frye, Bruce Gradkowski, Jason Campbell, Kyle Boller, Carson Palmer (who many fans practically despised), Terrelle Pryor, Matt McGloin, and Matt Flynn come through. 

Before that, we had George, Hostetler, and a couple more no-namers. 

You'd think that we were Green Bay going from Favre to Rodgers or even New England going from Bledsoe to Brady prior to 2015, the way some are so ready to cast Carr out. 30 years of being a Raider fan, and the bulk of my memory is that list above- the list of starting Raiders QBs. Outside of MAYBE Carson Palmer, Carr is leaps and bounds better than any of them. 

Why are the Browns so perennially bad? Look at their QBs over the years, and they DID try to draft them high. The Jets? The Jaguars? What, we're going to pull a Dan Snyder and trade the house for Trevor Lawrence? No, we aren't. He can still bust. He could blow a shoulder. He could pull a Luck and randomly retire. He's never taken an NFL snap or played a consistent slate of games against equal talent. We would be stupid to do so. Gonna trade for Prince Harry who just got yanked, despite so many singing his praises? Gonna trade for Sam Darnold? 

We're desperate for a real defense that can stop the worst offenses in the league, we aren't desperate for a QB. 

100 percent spot on and you clearly remember the days of begging for anything other than a dumpster fire at QB.  

You had to bring up our Qb list over the last 25 years and make me throw up my dinner  Look at that absolute garbage and just imagine what this team would look like with any of those bums at QB?  This is a 4 win team with any of those hacks behind center.  

We need to build up our D, that is clear as day.  We need a 3T who can rush the passer, that has to be the most pressing need come draft day or FA.  

No QB has had to fear the Rona when playing the Raiders this season, our pass rush never comes within 6 feet of them LOL 

[HvacRaider]

@Raiders

QB Derek Carr became the fifth player in NFL history to record at least 20 touchdown passes and 3,000 passing yards in six of his first seven seasons, joining Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Eli Manning and Dan Marino.

[HvacRaider]

I voted to extend.. Carr pisses me off alot.. but since i started to watch the RAIDERS in 97 , Carr is probally the best QB we have had IMO. 

Gannon was a MVP sure but he had a much, much better team. 

Stop acting like CARR is the worst. He is actually quite good. Give him a D and he would have the team in playoffs each season 

[ronjon1990]

15 minutes ago, HvacRaider said:

I voted to extend.. Carr pisses me off alot.. but since i started to watch the RAIDERS in 97 , Carr is probally the best QB we have had IMO. 

Gannon was a MVP sure but he had a much, much better team. 

Stop acting like CARR is the worst. He is actually quite good. Give him a D and he would have the team in playoffs each season 

I voted neither because the first two options are entirely unnecessary.

There's no need to cut ties with him, and his current contract runs to 2023. He'll be a steal to extend once the Mahomes, Watsons, etc of the world keep throwing up those "never win Superbowls but look nifty stat lines". Peyton Manning is the only QB in recent memory to ride a huge statistical season to a Superbowl win, and even then, Denver's D was dominant as well. Carr's level of play is Superbowl worthy most years, but because people get enamored by 50 TDs, that drives the market. Extend him in a couple years and draft someone to groom in the meantime if you must. Anything else is purely reactionary.

[HvacRaider]

8 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I voted neither because the first two options are entirely unnecessary.

There's no need to cut ties with him, and his current contract runs to 2023. He'll be a steal to extend once the Mahomes, Watsons, etc of the world keep throwing up those "never win Superbowls but look nifty stat lines". Peyton Manning is the only QB in recent memory to ride a huge statistical season to a Superbowl win, and even then, Denver's D was dominant as well. Carr's level of play is Superbowl worthy most years, but because people get enamored by 50 TDs, that drives the market. Extend him in a couple years and draft someone to groom in the meantime if you must. Anything else is purely reactionary.

Thats true. 

[Rolni]

You wait.

No need to rush, his current salary is solid.

You check how the draft goes...maybe we will draft a young gun, maybe not...

You check how Carr plays in 2021 with an improved roster, a hopefully lot better D with the new DC...then you make a decision after the 2021 season. 

[SimonGruber]

I think I’d roll with Carr but I really wanna advocate for another big weapon for him. However how much more do we invest in the offense ?

[oakdb36]

8 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

  No QB has had to fear the Rona when playing the Raiders this season, our pass rush never comes within 6 feet of them LOL 

I'm not here to tell anybody our D is good but our pass rush is actually not as bad as people think. We were 18th in pressure rate before this week, which is much better than last season (27th) or 2018 (32nd). Obviously have to turn more of those into sacks now.

[Rich7sena]

Just to remind those who maybe didn't fully read the opening post, the reason for extending or trading Carr has to do with capitalizing on the 2021 free agency class. If the Raiders don't cut or extend Carr, it will be much tougher for the Raiders to improve in free agency without making another move that could create even more holes on the roster, like cutting Trent Brown.

 

[Dessie]

2 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

Just to remind those who maybe didn't fully read the opening post, the reason for extending or trading Carr has to do with capitalizing on the 2021 free agency class. If the Raiders don't cut or extend Carr, it will be much tougher for the Raiders to improve in free agency without making another move that could create even more holes on the roster, like cutting Trent Brown.

 

Cutting Brown, Williams, Joyner, Incognito would save a small fortune ? 

[Justwinning]

7 minutes ago, Dessie said:

Cutting Brown, Williams, Joyner, Incognito would save a small fortune ? 

According to overthecap, without any moves made, we will have (-12m) in cap space. 

This largely because of the projected cap is expected to decrease significantly.

https://overthecap.com/calculator/las-vegas-raiders/

Edited December 7, 2020 by Justwinning