BackinBlack Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 have fun arguing either: 1 - youre point is wrong, there is not always 1 Superstar or Franchince QB per dradt. 2 - Jimmy G is better then Derek Carr. 3 - Derek Carr is a franchise QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 minute ago, BackinBlack said: ok cool, so now you are saying every year there is 1 or 2 franchise level qbs. . . not Star QBs. keep shifting the goalposts, i love it. Question for you, From 2014, who is the Franchise QB? 3 Blake Bortles Jaguars Central Florida 2 1 22 22 Johnny Manziel Browns Texas A&M 3 1 32 32 Teddy Bridgewater Vikings Louisville 4 2 4 36 Derek Carr Raiders Fresno State 5 2 30 62 Jimmy Garoppolo Patriots Eastern Illinois 6 4 20 120 Logan Thomas Cardinals Virginia Tech 7 4 35 135 Tom Savage Texans Pittsburgh 8 5 23 163 Aaron Murray Chiefs Georgia 9 5 24 164 AJ McCarron Bengals Alabama 10 6 2 178 Zach Mettenberger Titans Louisiana State 11 6 7 183 David Fales Bears San Jose State 12 6 18 194 Keith Wenning Ravens Ball State 13 6 37 213 Tajh Boyd Jets Clemson 14 6 38 214 Garrett Gilbert Talk about moving the goal posts..this is 7-8 years ago. None but you can argue this produced three starting QBs. NFL offenses have changed and we've seen college QBs have more success This doesn't that you automatically disqualify future QBs. Regardless of what you say, Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Watson, Herbert and Mayfield were all drafted in the AFC since Carr signed his deal in 2016. Why is it reserved that other teams can do that but not us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: have fun arguing either: 1 - youre point is wrong, there is not always 1 Superstar or Franchince QB per dradt. 2 - Jimmy G is better then Derek Carr. 3 - Derek Carr is a franchise QB If Carr is a franchise QB, then he is responsible for Wins and losses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: If Carr is a franchise QB, then he is responsible for Wins and losses This is very obtuse. Do you believe that Deshaun Watson is worse than Carr? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 minute ago, bucksavage1 said: Talk about moving the goal posts..this is 7-8 years ago. None but you can argue this produced three starting QBs. NFL offenses have changed and we've seen college QBs have more success This doesn't that you automatically disqualify future QBs. Regardless of what you say, Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Watson, Herbert and Mayfield were all drafted in the AFC since Carr signed his deal in 2016. Why is it reserved that other teams can do that but not us? again, you said every draft class has 1 or 2 Star QBs then said 1 or 2 franchise qbs now is it, 1 or 2 starting QBs? Cause yes ill agree with you there. I didnt move any goal post. I just posted Derek Carrs draft class, 7-8 years ago actually isnt that long for QBs. the 2015 draft class is even worse. the 2017 class with Mahommes and Watson was pretty incredible. 1 minute ago, bucksavage1 said: If Carr is a franchise QB, then he is responsible for Wins and losses ahh well then if he is not a franchise qb would he not responsible for wins and losses? but youre the one who keeps bringing up his wins and losses? So by that logic, your blaming Carr for our wins and losses, therefore making him a Franchise QB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 20 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: Our offense has not reached its peak, perhaps a Better QB can get more out of it So instead of going with what should be an easy fix (getting a bottom 3 defense to the middle of the pack), you would rather we try to improve our already top 10 scoring offense? Improving a top 10 offense that had a first year FA WR (Agholor), two rookie WRs (Ruggs/Edwards), a 2nd year WR and RB (Renfrow and Jacobs), an amazing TE (GOAT, AKA D. Waller!!)??? I'd rather we keep our offense in place as is, let the very young talent on offense continue to develop, and reload our defense. Derek Carr getting our offense, which had half of its starters playing as either rookies or 2nd year players, into the top 10 in scoring is getting a ton out of this offense. Seriously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Football 101. Football is a team sport. You guys crack me up as to how you claim to understand the game but clearly lack the ability to comprehend what you are watching... It's a team sport but the top 4 QBs in DVOA are playing on Sunday. That tells me the best teams have the best leaders at the most important position on the field, QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, big_palooka said: It's a team sport but the top 4 QBs in DVOA are playing on Sunday. That tells me the best teams have the best leaders at the most important position on the field, QB. where was Derek Carr on that list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: This is very obtuse. Do you believe that Deshaun Watson is worse than Carr? Deshaun Watson going 4-12 during what was essentially a career year really puts things into perspective when it comes to football being a team sport. Its crazy how fans will defend Watson saying he is an elite QB, then turn around and say that elite QBs should be able to carry their teams to the playoffs (which Watson didn't), and then argue that DC can't do it so we need to upgrade, when even a player of Watson's caliber can't do it without a supporting cast lol. They've said A Rod can do it and did it this year yet completely disregard the fact that he had a losing season while throwing like 26 TDs and 2 INTs because his defense couldn't get it done. Then argue that somehow a better QB would've gotten us to the playoffs even with this terrible defense we have. I read someone else post on this forum that no team has ever made the playoffs with a bottom 3 defense, so why is it that DC has to get us there? Why can't people just except that no QB in the NFL has ever done it. Ever??? Man...........maybe we should fix the defense and see how that works out first? Maybe have a consistently good defense and see how DC does, before shipping him off? I myself, as a couch potato fan, would improve the defense before moving on from DC. Just my opinion. You know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 44 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: A convenient stat used to defend Carr but no losses are attributed to him according to this Carr defender logic Yup Still waiting for explanation on why the nfl tracks “come from behind victories” as a qb stat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 minute ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Yup Still waiting for explanation on why the nfl tracks “come from behind victories” as a qb stat? because it sells? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: because it sells? Lol but I thought it’s football 101 that wins aren’t a qb stat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: because it sells? And people love it! Just like we started tracking sacks back in the 80s or 90s. People wanted to know the stat, so they started tracking it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Lol but I thought it’s football 101 that wins aren’t a qb stat I mean wins are a team stat. that is literally what the stat is showing. How many games has the team played. then how many of those games did they win. when derek carr got hurt in 2016, the NFL doesnt show the raiders record as 12-3. That is because wins and losses are based off the team not the QB I am actually shocked i just had to type that out. time to leave this thread again lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 56 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: ok cool, so now you are saying every year there is 1 or 2 franchise level qbs. . . not Star QBs. keep shifting the goalposts, i love it. Question for you, From 2014, who is the Franchise QB? 3 Blake Bortles Jaguars Central Florida 2 1 22 22 Johnny Manziel Browns Texas A&M 3 1 32 32 Teddy Bridgewater Vikings Louisville 4 2 4 36 Derek Carr Raiders Fresno State 5 2 30 62 Jimmy Garoppolo Patriots Eastern Illinois 6 4 20 120 Logan Thomas Cardinals Virginia Tech 7 4 35 135 Tom Savage Texans Pittsburgh 8 5 23 163 Aaron Murray Chiefs Georgia 9 5 24 164 AJ McCarron Bengals Alabama 10 6 2 178 Zach Mettenberger Titans Louisiana State 11 6 7 183 David Fales Bears San Jose State 12 6 18 194 Keith Wenning Ravens Ball State 13 6 37 213 Tajh Boyd Jets Clemson 14 6 38 214 Garrett Gilbert Tajh Boyd for sure. Dude came from Clemson. LOL! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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