The Carr dilemma in 2021

[Humble_Beast]

Just now, Dessie said:

Incognito is 37yo coming off an Achilles injury due to earn $6.3m much rather keep Jackson and Brown has missed far too much time to be worth $14m next year. 

I’m leaning on keep Brown and just bringing back Good with a portion of that 6m. Let him battle with Simpson for RG or be the swing tackle. Whatever Cable things, good guy to have around. 

[NightTrainLane]

Unless something happens like 2016 where he gets hurt or he plays total crappy down the stretch and it cost us games, you keep Carr.

Tyrell Williams - 11.6mil

Richie Incognito  - 6.3mil

Mariota - 10mil

Joyner - 11.2mil with 2.5mil dead cap

That is 36 mil right there and none of those players would be missed or aren't replaceable.

[Turnobili]

i dont think there's a dilemma.

he's the guy. (barring a nightmarish end of the season where he plays like the Atlanta game in 2-3 of the next 4 games)

he's not Russ or Mahomes, but it would be a fools errand to not lock him up. like we saw with Carr's last extension, the earlier you do it, the better. He went from highest paid QB at the time of signing to one of the best cost-controleld QBs in the league.

moving on from a good QB because you are on the hunt for a better one would be pretty bad. look at what happened to Washingotn with Cousins. Look at what Dallas is facing right now with Dak. Unless you have somebody like Rodgers banging down the door to play for you, then there's no question. Carr has shown improvement under Gruden, particularly with his pocket movement and extension of plays (ball security in the pocket is the next real issue for him). I just hope Ruggs/Edwards can take a step forward next year, they've been disappointing so far.

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, Rich7sena said:

Do you think the roster is currently good where it is? Also, Trent Brown has been good. It's not potential.

He's been good (when he has played). Why do you not understand that qualifier? He. Has. Barely. Played. We. Are. Paying. Him. While. He. Does. Not. Play. Capiché?

No the roster isn't currently good. We've managed to use all the cap space that cap bros swore we'd have by pledging fielty to St Reggie and now St Mike on nothing but wasted picks, free agent whiffs, and "untapped potential". 

When we have had a ton of cap space, we've shown through 2 regimes that we don't understand how to use it. We gave bloated deals to Mariota and Nassib as career backups, we paid Tyrell Williams as if he were a #1 despite him never showing as much better than a solid 3 in San Diego, and have put a ton of money wrapped up in a 37 year old G with an Achilles injury and a T who, again if you managed to miss it the last million times, doesn't play. 

I don't want Mayock handing out sweetheart deals that put us in a bind down the road. His entire philosophy, for better or worse, is "I'm going after guys I want come hell or high water, regardless of value". He does it on draft day, he does it in FA. That's why a guy like Mariota gets the contract he does. It's why Bowden and Muse were taken in the 3rd round. Mayock doesn't understand $ value. Given a large amount of cap space, what exactly do you think he does to IMPROVE the roster? His best moves in FA have been some of the cheaper signings, not his Madden 25 Owner Mode With No Cap philosophy of "getting his guys". 

Give him less cap space, because then he has to focus on actual talent (like Kwit) and less on his pie in the sky headscratch signings that can only be explained as "he really likes them" (Nassib, Mariota) despite grossly overpaying. 

[MrOaktown_56]

50 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

He's been good (when he has played). Why do you not understand that qualifier? He. Has. Barely. Played. We. Are. Paying. Him. While. He. Does. Not. Play. Capiché?

No the roster isn't currently good. We've managed to use all the cap space that cap bros swore we'd have by pledging fielty to St Reggie and now St Mike on nothing but wasted picks, free agent whiffs, and "untapped potential". 

When we have had a ton of cap space, we've shown through 2 regimes that we don't understand how to use it. We gave bloated deals to Mariota and Nassib as career backups, we paid Tyrell Williams as if he were a #1 despite him never showing as much better than a solid 3 in San Diego, and have put a ton of money wrapped up in a 37 year old G with an Achilles injury and a T who, again if you managed to miss it the last million times, doesn't play. 

I don't want Mayock handing out sweetheart deals that put us in a bind down the road. His entire philosophy, for better or worse, is "I'm going after guys I want come hell or high water, regardless of value". He does it on draft day, he does it in FA. That's why a guy like Mariota gets the contract he does. It's why Bowden and Muse were taken in the 3rd round. Mayock doesn't understand $ value. Given a large amount of cap space, what exactly do you think he does to IMPROVE the roster? His best moves in FA have been some of the cheaper signings, not his Madden 25 Owner Mode With No Cap philosophy of "getting his guys". 

Give him less cap space, because then he has to focus on actual talent (like Kwit) and less on his pie in the sky headscratch signings that can only be explained as "he really likes them" (Nassib, Mariota) despite grossly overpaying. 

Despite the whiffs, many of which are correctable, we are well on the way toward being a better team.

I think some of the signings ended up being cute garbage. You are correct in that.

But Mariota can be cut for no dead money next year. Joyner can be cut for no dead money. TW can be cut for no dead money. 

Bowden sucked (I whiffed there too) but at least we got a 4th rounder back.

Muse there is no excuse. I actually think he can become a solid LB over time, but we should have taken one of the safeties.

I want to see who he grabs with the free agent $ this upcoming year. Will we add an excellent safety and DT? Will we potentially load up on another vet WR? Who will we draft?

 

[Rich7sena]

2 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

Unless something happens like 2016 where he gets hurt or he plays total crappy down the stretch and it cost us games, you keep Carr.

Tyrell Williams - 11.6mil

Richie Incognito  - 6.3mil

Mariota - 10mil

Joyner - 11.2mil with 2.5mil dead cap

That is 36 mil right there and none of those players would be missed or aren't replaceable.

The Raiders will be operating at a cap deficit next season if the base cap plummets to around $175 million. According to overthecap.com, the Raiders will be operating from just over -$6 million. Plus, the Raiders will probably want/need to re-sign some players. I premised my opening post with the idea that the Raiders should capitalize on this free agent class. In my opinion, it's one of the best in recent memory and the Raiders are ripe for making playoff runs in consecutive seasons for the first time in decades.

[SimonGruber]

2 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

The Raiders will be operating at a cap deficit next season if the base cap plummets to around $175 million. According to overthecap.com, the Raiders will be operating from just over -$6 million. Plus, the Raiders will probably want/need to re-sign some players. I premised my opening post with the idea that the Raiders should capitalize on this free agent class. In my opinion, it's one of the best in recent memory and the Raiders are ripe for making playoff runs in consecutive seasons for the first time in decades.

Man Kenny  Golliday (pipe dream) is the Carr Prototype or what.

[Rich7sena]

2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

He's been good (when he has played). Why do you not understand that qualifier? He. Has. Barely. Played. We. Are. Paying. Him. While. He. Does. Not. Play. Capiché?

No the roster isn't currently good. We've managed to use all the cap space that cap bros swore we'd have by pledging fielty to St Reggie and now St Mike on nothing but wasted picks, free agent whiffs, and "untapped potential". 

When we have had a ton of cap space, we've shown through 2 regimes that we don't understand how to use it. We gave bloated deals to Mariota and Nassib as career backups, we paid Tyrell Williams as if he were a #1 despite him never showing as much better than a solid 3 in San Diego, and have put a ton of money wrapped up in a 37 year old G with an Achilles injury and a T who, again if you managed to miss it the last million times, doesn't play. 

I don't want Mayock handing out sweetheart deals that put us in a bind down the road. His entire philosophy, for better or worse, is "I'm going after guys I want come hell or high water, regardless of value". He does it on draft day, he does it in FA. That's why a guy like Mariota gets the contract he does. It's why Bowden and Muse were taken in the 3rd round. Mayock doesn't understand $ value. Given a large amount of cap space, what exactly do you think he does to IMPROVE the roster? His best moves in FA have been some of the cheaper signings, not his Madden 25 Owner Mode With No Cap philosophy of "getting his guys". 

Give him less cap space, because then he has to focus on actual talent (like Kwit) and less on his pie in the sky headscratch signings that can only be explained as "he really likes them" (Nassib, Mariota) despite grossly overpaying. 

On Brown: The money he's been paid this season is a sunk cost. It would not make sense to cut him when he has been very good when healthy. It's also not like he's been out with recurring injuries, either--he has been afflicted with COVID-19, which should presumably be a non-issue come the start of the 2021 season. Entiendes? 

On roster-building: You're take is completely worm-brained and amounts to: "because certain moves haven't worked, we should make any moves!" You also somehow argue that signing Kwiatkowski was an accidentally good signing but signing Mariota was "that ole dummy Mayock can't get anything right." Also, you have far too unrealistic expectations of free agency and the draft. Yes, not every signing is going to work out--and that's okay! Guys get injured, aren't a good fit, or simply weren't good players to begin with. As long as you don't back yourself into a corner by giving too much guaranteed money after the first year or two, you can easily divest yourself of those players LIKE HAS BEEN PROPOSED IN THIS VERY THREAD. Also, what do you propose we do with the draft picks since Mayock can't draft? Give them away for a bag of bats?

No need to respond I'm muting you.

[Rich7sena]

9 minutes ago, SimonGruber said:

Man Kenny  Golliday (pipe dream) is the Carr Prototype or what.

I honestly didn't know he was going to be a free agent. Off the top of my head, the WR class is phenomenal: Golladay, A Robinson, Godwin, Smith-Schuster, Fuller, Marvin Jones, even Corey Davis I'd be into.

[SimonGruber]

29 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

I honestly didn't know he was going to be a free agent. Off the top of my head, the WR class is phenomenal: Golladay, A Robinson, Godwin, Smith-Schuster, Fuller, Marvin Jones, even Corey Davis I'd be into.

Only ones I see hitting the market are Marvin Jones, Robinson and Corey Davis. All signs point to tyrell gone id love Corey Davis or robinson

[Rich7sena]

8 minutes ago, SimonGruber said:

Only ones I see hitting the market are Marvin Jones, Robinson and Corey Davis. All signs point to tyrell gone id love Corey Davis or robinson

I think Smith-Schuster and Fuller are gone, too. Smith-Schuster has already arguably become the third option behind Johnson and Claypool, and Fuller was dangled to the Packers before the trade deadline.

[Blazer026]

I think he’s the guy, unless he totally falls apart the next few weeks. 

[MrOaktown_56]

I'd be game to get a veteran WR. Depends on how Agholor plays down the stretch. Love his big plays but his drops have also been killer at times.

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

On Brown: The money he's been paid this season is a sunk cost. It would not make sense to cut him when he has been very good when healthy. It's also not like he's been out with recurring injuries, either--he has been afflicted with COVID-19, which should presumably be a non-issue come the start of the 2021 season. Entiendes? 

On roster-building: You're take is completely worm-brained and amounts to: "because certain moves haven't worked, we should make any moves!" You also somehow argue that signing Kwiatkowski was an accidentally good signing but signing Mariota was "that ole dummy Mayock can't get anything right." Also, you have far too unrealistic expectations of free agency and the draft. Yes, not every signing is going to work out--and that's okay! Guys get injured, aren't a good fit, or simply weren't good players to begin with. As long as you don't back yourself into a corner by giving too much guaranteed money after the first year or two, you can easily divest yourself of those players LIKE HAS BEEN PROPOSED IN THIS VERY THREAD. Also, what do you propose we do with the draft picks since Mayock can't draft? Give them away for a bag of bats?

No need to respond I'm muting you.

He's been on the shelf for non-Covid issues as well. 

Other than that, you can't seem to dissect a logical argument without going off the rails.

Sorry snowflake, I'll miss you 😢

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, SimonGruber said:

Only ones I see hitting the market are Marvin Jones, Robinson and Corey Davis. All signs point to tyrell gone id love Corey Davis or robinson

Davis would be dope. I'm not sold on Robinson, but Chicago has it's issues that contribute to that. 

Marvin Jones could be a sneaky good one. 

Despite reservations, I'd prefer Robinson of the 3. The others are good, but Robinson offers some size we're missing outside of Edwards at WR. Agholor, Ruggs, and Renfrow have proven themselves (outside of some of the Agholor drops referenced by @MrOaktown_56) and I feel like Davis and Jones offer much of the same play type. Robinson's in a bad spot and might be more of a reclamation project, but he offers dominant WR1 size.