The Carr dilemma in 2021

[big_palooka]

21 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Beyond the 2017 debacle I have spoken about Carr leading.  His pregame hype speeches seem fake because he does not sacrifice on the field.  One of the reasons why I liked Fitz more than Carr even though Carr is a better QB.  You fight for Fitz because he leaves it on the field.  He will hold onto to the ball to let the play develop knowing he is going to take a big shot or will take a hit to pick up a 1st down with his legs.  Some posters make excuses for Carr saying they do not want there QB taking hits but sometimes it is the right choice.  A true leader will only ask you to sacrifice if they are willing to also.  If it is 3rd and 8 you do not slide after 7 yards.  You get to 8 even when it means you are going to get hit.  It brings new life to your team.  That next play your o-line is going to look to inflect some pain on the defense for hitting you.  Your WRs will go across the middle and take the shot to secure the catch.  The RB will lower his shoulder and gain positive yards.  Everyone will look to you for guidance and motivation.  The QB sets the tone on offence.  You think Jacobs wants to go out and take a big shot to pick up a couple yards if Carr keeps throwing the ball away so he does not get hit.  You want to bring out the best you have to have a good leader.  Carr has improved but this and situational awareness I believe are his 2 biggest flaws.

Reminded me of this quote from Jacobs after Mariota played against the Chargers.

 "He made the defense play honest. The ends couldn't come chase us down like they did last game we played them. They had to play their gaps and play their responsibilities."

I remember reading that and thinking here the star RB is basically saying, hey this back up made things easier for me as a RB. It didn't get much attention, but it was odd Jacobs didn't come out with the clichés about backup QBs or really back the starter in this moment.

Edited January 29, 2021 by big_palooka

[drfrey13]

1 minute ago, big_palooka said:

Reminded me of this quote from Jacobs after Mariota played against the Chargers.

 "He made the defense play honest. The ends couldn't come chase us down like they did last game we played them. They had to play their gaps and play their responsibilities."

I remember reading that and thinking here the star RB is basically saying, hey this back up made things easier for me as a RB. It didn't get much attention, but it was odd Jacobs didn't come out with the clichés about backup QBs or really back the starter in this moment.

I can not remember the people I was arguing with, maybe it was you, but for a couple years I had been saying Carr has enough and athleticism to take off when the opportunity presents itself.  He just need to be decisive and go.  It would help out the passing game and the running game.  People do not play us like they are worried about Carr running.  The LBs get deep into the passing lanes or play the flat waiting for Carr to check it down.  If he reads man defense and the LBs are getting deep then take off when the WRs do not get open.  They will change their defense to stop you and that will open up other things.  Easy philosophy to remember.  Keep doing the same thing until they prove they can stop it.  I do not know if it is Gruden's play calling or Carr's unwillingness to take a chance but we just keep banging our heads against the wall trying to do the same thing over and over again.  Agian another reason why I think a lesser QB like Fitz is a better fit for our offense.  IF we get rid of Mariota or trade Carr I want Fitz as our backup.

[Jerry]

12 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

From what everyone around here has said is that Carr has a relatively cheap cap hit for a QB.  I will give you that.  So why have we spent more on Carr, who is suppose to be cheap, and the o-line than the entire defense.  Either we have focused on the o-line to much for Carr or it is ridiculous how much we have ignored the defense.  Everyone said Carr needs more weapons and talent on the offense and that is why he has not done well.  We had to sacrifice the defense to give Carr what some said he needed.  Now the FO and Gruden have failed so they carry some of the blame for wasting money and draft picks but you have to choose between investing in the defense or giving Carr talent.  We will not have both.  So this brings me back to what I have said a few times.  We need Carr or Gruden to leave.  I am not saying people can not improve but from what many Carr supporters say around here is that the offense is not the problem.  It is when you have to ignore the other side of the ball to accomplish your goals.  No denying the defense needs to get better but the offense may need to maintain or do more with less.

Well, we are probably going to cut 30M on offense (Incognito, Trent, Williams) and allocate more of it towards the defense.  We see now without them we can be a top 10 scoring team.  So while it has been an issue in the past, I believe it will be fixed this offseason.

[NCOUGHMAN]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Shannahan and McVey are two of the best coaches in the NFL. And there will alway be one off Superbowl teams. But consistently, the teams with the best QB are in the biggest games. 

Gruden is not a good coach. He's to impatient and has a huge ego. They will never properly build this roster to compete in the AFC.

That's my view of it. I know this is a place for optimism, but I refuse to look blindly at the fact this organization is steeped in loosing culture and is currently trending in the wrong direction under Gruden. He blew up the roster to get his guys and has failed predictably over 3 years to field a winning team.

Carr.... good guy, good player. Not a leader who is holding teammates accountable in practice and the locker room. 

Imo gruden is too soft and a players coach. He wants to be their friends and gives long leaches that some take advantage of. The whole ab thing exposed the lack discipline. Gruden wanted to be his friend and give him a long leach because ab’s production. Mm is bad cop to gruden good cop. 
 

carr is a robin type who isn’t gonna call people out. Non confrontational. That works for sensitive players but others see it as a sign of weakness. Carr has to be the man if this is gonna work and he’s not built like that imo

[Jerry]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Shannahan and McVey are two of the best coaches in the NFL. And there will alway be one off Superbowl teams. But consistently, the teams with the best QB are in the biggest games. 

Gruden is not a good coach. He's to impatient and has a huge ego. They will never properly build this roster to compete in the AFC.

That's my view of it. I know this is a place for optimism, but I refuse to look blindly at the fact this organization is steeped in loosing culture and is currently trending in the wrong direction under Gruden. He blew up the roster to get his guys and has failed predictably over 3 years to field a winning team.

Carr.... good guy, good player. Not a leader who is holding teammates accountable in practice and the locker room. 

We literally just went 8-8, best record during Gruden's three years.  How are we trending down?  I don't understand this.  One side of the ball has greatly improved (offense), now we need to focus on getting the defense and we will be a playoff caliber team.  

[NCOUGHMAN]

57 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Reminded me of this quote from Jacobs after Mariota played against the Chargers.

 "He made the defense play honest. The ends couldn't come chase us down like they did last game we played them. They had to play their gaps and play their responsibilities."

I remember reading that and thinking here the star RB is basically saying, hey this back up made things easier for me as a RB. It didn't get much attention, but it was odd Jacobs didn't come out with the clichés about backup QBs or really back the starter in this moment.

You could see it on the field too.

[oakdb36]

I see we're getting back to that beta bs.

[drfrey13]

1 minute ago, Jerry said:

Well, we are probably going to cut 30M on offense (Incognito, Trent, Williams) and allocate more of it towards the defense.  We see now without them we can be a top 10 scoring team.  So while it has been an issue in the past, I believe it will be fixed this offseason.

I think they could also if they are smart about who they bring in.  My issue thru all of this is people blaming the defense when we know that the defense is not setup to succeed.  We are setup for the offense to carry us.  That is why I know the defense sucks most of the time but I do not blame them.  There are who I expect them to be.  The offense on the other hand needs to understand that and be more aggressive and not settle for so many FGs.  The coaching on the defensive side of the ball needs to recognize the only way we lower our points per game given up is to force turnovers.  For that we need to be more aggressive.  That is why Guenther was the #1 issue on defense because their talent level was not good for a bend don't break.  All we did was slow down the breaking allowing the other defense time to rest.  Be aggressive and get off the field quickly so that our offense can grind the other teams defense into submission.  That will also take the other teams offense out of rhythm and rest our defense.  Sometimes you give up a little to get your opponent in a position you want them to be in.  When we beat the Chiefs you could tell our aggressive style and Mahomes trying to keep up with our offense wore down their team.

[NCOUGHMAN]

6 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

I see we're getting back to that beta bs.

You honestly think carr would get in hr3’s face and tell him to get his sh together?

[Jerry]

2 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

100%  agree. Carr has been here for 7 seasons and only 1 have resulted into a playoff appearance

People like to claim on this forum that wins are a team stat but that isnt 100 true.

Win loss record are attributed to coaches and QBs because they have the biggest impact on the team. Leadership and accountability falls mostly on the QB and coaches.

Tom Brady took a team who was out of the playoffs into the super bowl? Part of that is leadership. 

D. Watson's impact was clearly not enough to help his team get into the playoffs.  No reason to sign him knowing he doesn't have the leadership skills to get it done. 

Tom Brady took a good team, that signed Gronk, Suh, Fournette, and probably some other good players I can't recall off the top of my head, with a defense that has one of the best LB groups in the league, and took it to the playoffs and proceeded to beat up on the WFT, a Saints team with the shell of Brees, and then got lucky on a PI against the Packers.  But yeah I mean he did it.  Him along with some talented FAs, a pretty good roster to begin with, and yeah he did it.

Do you really believe Mahomes and Brady could take the current rosters of the Jets and Jags and take them to the SB?  I really want to know.  Andy Reid and Mahomes on the Jets, and Arians and Brady on the Jags and they're in the SB?  I'm just wondering.

[oakdb36]

3 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

You honestly think carr would get in hr3’s face and tell him to get his sh together?

I have no idea, the only Carr i know is the one giving press conferences.

[drfrey13]

7 minutes ago, Jerry said:

D. Watson's impact was clearly not enough to help his team get into the playoffs.  No reason to sign him knowing he doesn't have the leadership skills to get it done. 

Tom Brady took a good team, that signed Gronk, Suh, Fournette, and probably some other good players I can't recall off the top of my head, with a defense that has one of the best LB groups in the league, and took it to the playoffs and proceeded to beat up on the WFT, a Saints team with the shell of Brees, and then got lucky on a PI against the Packers.  But yeah I mean he did it.  Him along with some talented FAs, a pretty good roster to begin with, and yeah he did it.

Do you really believe Mahomes and Brady could take the current rosters of the Jets and Jags and take them to the SB?  I really want to know.  Andy Reid and Mahomes on the Jets, and Arians and Brady on the Jags and they're in the SB?  I'm just wondering.

No but they would have a shot with our roster.  The second half collapse would not happen.

[drfrey13]

2 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

I have no idea, the only Carr i know is the one giving press conferences.

I think Carr would if Gruden told him to.  Carr would probably pull him aside and talk to him.  Have we ever seen Carr yell at anyone?  I think he yelled at a coach once on the sideline.  

[Jerry]

2 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

No but they would have a shot with our roster.  The second half collapse would not happen.

Doubt it.  They would need to bring along their defenses to make it work.

[drfrey13]

3 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Doubt it.  They would need to bring along their defenses to make it work.

We were 8-8 with one of the worst DCs and we would be upgrading at QB and HC.  They would need to bring their coaching staffs.  Without Mahomes and Reid the Chiefs do not win the division and with them we do.  We have homefield round 1.  Are we as good as those teams? No.  Are we a better team? Yes and are at least in the playoffs with a chance.