drfrey13 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 First, this was an EST 10 am start time so you know we were in trouble no mater the who the opponent was. Second, we got the win so I am not going to completely lose it. Third, our defense played a little better than we are giving them credit for. We gave up four TDs, which is not good, on 4 of 11 drives but on the other 7 drives we either got a TO or forced a 3 and out. If we could duplicate 7 drives on a weekly basis forcing 3 and outs or TOs I would bet we would win a lot more than we lost. Especially with how or offense is setup to play ball control and run the ball down the opponents throat. We also got a 3 and out when needed to give Carr another shot. The real issue was the impact of not having Abram for the run defense and not having Jacobs to grind out the 1st downs. We averaged 2.9 yards a carry and gave up 6.1 per carry. Carr's stats look good but some of that was gifted to him. Waller not being covered the entire game and that horrible last play call contributed to most of his stats. I give credit that he did enough to win and took what the defense gave him but he missed a lot also. I do not think Carr played a complete game. We got the W but we should have taken an L against the worst team in the league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 23 hours ago, Justwinning said: Joyner was signed to be one of our main contributors on defense and has underwhelmed. For that contract, he's a bust. You don't pay him the money he makes in order for him to be a stopgap. A stopgap is someone like Nevin Lawson, but I'm glad we can get out of Joyner's deal this offseason with little dead money. Collins, prior to being placed on IR, has been really bad. As for Littleton, I don't see how him being out of position causes him to make him miss tackles. It's been frustrating to watch these guys underperform. The young guys give me hope, however. You can be counted on to be a main contributor and be a stopgap and the deal he signed showed it. After further research and digging it seems they do have Littleton listed as WLB and Morrow listed as SAM in serveal places and I have watched every game and how Morrow and Littleton are used would agree with that. I took what someone else said and subconsciously ran with it on the position mix up. So yeah the missed tackles are unexplained and he is having a bad year. I don't know that he and Collins have been used right or if it's them under performing or arethey/were they still learning the system. But you can't argue that these guys were good to great players previous to this year so something is off. The real ? here is who do you blame? The player, coaches(and which ones), or GM and staff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 23 hours ago, Rich7sena said: Okay, so option 1. That was the whole point of the OP. NO. Neither. No need to extend him til we win something. Let him play on the contract we have him in and restructure the other top guys around him to get space if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said: NO. Neither. No need to extend him til we win something. Let him play on the contract we have him in and restructure the other top guys around him to get space if needed. "Then you look at restructuring a few guys out of the top 5 earners left on the roster (Carr, Brown, Littlton, Hudson and Jackson). That brings up the Brown situation which should be it's own tread but he takes a restructure or you cut him imo." How do you plan on restructuring Carr then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 22 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: "Then you look at restructuring a few guys out of the top 5 earners left on the roster (Carr, Brown, Littlton, Hudson and Jackson). That brings up the Brown situation which should be it's own tread but he takes a restructure or you cut him imo." How do you plan on restructuring Carr then? I don't. I said a few guys out of the top 5 and then listed the top 5 earners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Hopefully we have an offseason going into next year where Carr can build chemistry with guys like Ruggs and Edwards. I think both are the real deal, and before we add any big money FA, id keep our weapons and attribute that money to guys like Leonard Williams and Justin Simmons. I think with a real offseason, Carr can take the next step with the guys we have in place. The offense isn’t the issue, we need to continue to build the defense. I believe the secondary is a FS away from being very good, and the defense as a whole would be better off if we can get ANY type of pressure up the middle. offseason wish list: competant DC Stud 3T Stud FS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 hour ago, NightTrainLane said: I don't. I said a few guys out of the top 5 and then listed the top 5 earners. That's not going to clear up nearly as much room as you think. I would rather extend Carr, then restructure an oft-injured Brown, or underperorming Littleton or Jackson. And Rodney Hudson is just coming off a restructure. Trading Carr is probably not going to happen, but I think extending Carr is more likely than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Geezy said: Hopefully we have an offseason going into next year where Carr can build chemistry with guys like Ruggs and Edwards. I think both are the real deal, and before we add any big money FA, id keep our weapons and attribute that money to guys like Leonard Williams and Justin Simmons. I think with a real offseason, Carr can take the next step with the guys we have in place. The offense isn’t the issue, we need to continue to build the defense. I believe the secondary is a FS away from being very good, and the defense as a whole would be better off if we can get ANY type of pressure up the middle. offseason wish list: competant DC Stud 3T Stud FS Completely agree. What you said and cut our FA failures and we are on our way to becoming an even better team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 20 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: That's not going to clear up nearly as much room as you think. I would rather extend Carr, then restructure an oft-injured Brown, or underperorming Littleton or Jackson. And Rodney Hudson is just coming off a restructure. Trading Carr is probably not going to happen, but I think extending Carr is more likely than not. I wouldn't unless we win something this year. Let him earn an extension. And YES restructuring 2-3 of those top guys would definitely clear as much money as I think if they do it right. Of course there are ways that it can be done where that amount of money isn't saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Does anyone really believe that Gruden will move on from Guenther? It's one of my biggest pet peeves. His coaching staff is a collection of old "Gruden guys' vs. a staff with some potential for growth. In the past he championed guys like Jay Gruden, McVay, Shanahan, Morris, Tomlin. Now we have Greg Olson who inspires next to nothing. "Good friend Paul Guenther" some old retreads from his Tampa staff like Morton, Wilson, Marinelli, etc. I still find it funny that in all his time away, this is the best staff he could put together on return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 between cuts like Joyner, Williams and Mariota and a couple restructures im sure we will create enough space to go after some big pieces on defense. Its not like we needs to fill half of our starting spots likes the past two seasons. give me two starters in FA and go BPA in the draft. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: Does anyone really believe that Gruden will move on from Guenther? It's one of my biggest pet peeves. His coaching staff is a collection of old "Gruden guys' vs. a staff with some potential for growth. In the past he championed guys like Jay Gruden, McVay, Shanahan, Morris, Tomlin. Now we have Greg Olson who inspires next to nothing. "Good friend Paul Guenther" some old retreads from his Tampa staff like Morton, Wilson, Marinelli, etc. I still find it funny that in all his time away, this is the best staff he could put together on return. Nope. Unless we have a complete collapse and it’s all on the defense, I’d be very surprised if there were any coaching staff changes at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Raider Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Nightmare said: Nope. Unless we have a complete collapse and it’s all on the defense, I’d be very surprised if there were any coaching staff changes at all. I disagree. I think for Gunther to stay we need to make the playoffs and win a playoff game. Bare minimum if we miss the playoffs at all it will have to be because the defense improved and the offense fell flat. I think all the time away really hurt Grudens ability to build a staff and caused for heavy reliance on old direct past staff members. After all that time away not a lot of guys want to sign on to that staff. The NFL moves fast, can't imagine a lot of young, up and comers wanted to sign on with a guy a lot of people thought the game had passed by. I think the success we have had (which is to say decent for 3 years into a total rebuild) makes joining the staff more attractive now than it did when Gruden took the job. I have seen/heard comments from Gruden this season that seem incredibly critical of Gunther and like Gruden is less than pleased with the job he has done. And having 3 straight years of a bottom 8 defense statistically with virtually zero improvement despite a heavy investment with high draft picks and big money free agents, gets you fired in the NFL. I think Gruden knows how important consistency in a staff and a system is for players, especially in a rebuild around a ton of young players. But there has to be gradual improvement. There has been none. So unless we win a playoff game or the defense really improves down the stretch I do think Gunther is out. Gruden isn't without flaws. But do you believe he's a coach that think his team should be sitting at 7-5 with one of the better offenses statically in terms of points, 3rd down percentage, TD-INT ratio, etc? I don't. I think he believes his offense is one of the better ones in football and even when they play almost the perfect game the games are still close coming down to the wire. I believe Gruden looks for an upgrade if for no other reason than because he thinks the job he has done with the offense and the praise that should be coming with it is being lost. And that blame has to go on someone. And Gunther is the logical (and IMO) also the correct person to blame. The most compelling question is also kind of being asked in BPs post, will he look to upgrade in the right way or will it be another similar yes man with no real upside? That will put my theory to the test that all the time away really hurt building a great staff. Gruden has done enough to show he still has a place as an NFL coach today (again something I'm not sure a ton of people believed when he was making his original staff) and that could interest a bigger array of candidates. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolni Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 11 hours ago, big_palooka said: Does anyone really believe that Gruden will move on from Guenther? It's one of my biggest pet peeves. His coaching staff is a collection of old "Gruden guys' vs. a staff with some potential for growth. In the past he championed guys like Jay Gruden, McVay, Shanahan, Morris, Tomlin. Now we have Greg Olson who inspires next to nothing. "Good friend Paul Guenther" some old retreads from his Tampa staff like Morton, Wilson, Marinelli, etc. I still find it funny that in all his time away, this is the best staff he could put together on return. Yeah I think so. I think he is beyond frustrated with this D and will move on from Guenther, if for nothing else he will need a scape goat when we miss the PO... The biggest question is who will be the DC, since the rest of your points are sadly really valid... I hope he go out and gets a younger guy, with fresh ideas, but I have my doubts. Maybe a guy like Derrick Ansley, who was here under Gruden in his first year can be a good option of youth, fresh ideas and a Gruden pal too... Seeing what Atlanta is doing after the Quinn fire, I could also live with a Morris pick up, if he is not retained there. Morris as DC could work and would definately hit the old Gruden guy concept... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 7 hours ago, Rolni said: Yeah I think so. I think he is beyond frustrated with this D and will move on from Guenther, if for nothing else he will need a scape goat when we miss the PO... The biggest question is who will be the DC, since the rest of your points are sadly really valid... I hope he go out and gets a younger guy, with fresh ideas, but I have my doubts. Maybe a guy like Derrick Ansley, who was here under Gruden in his first year can be a good option of youth, fresh ideas and a Gruden pal too... Seeing what Atlanta is doing after the Quinn fire, I could also live with a Morris pick up, if he is not retained there. Morris as DC could work and would definately hit the old Gruden guy concept... what about Ansley's time in Tennessee inspires confidence that he would be a good DC? Rod Marinelli's Son in Law is most the most likely candidate. Joe Barry is the guy!! Marvin Lewis or Raheem Morris would round out the top 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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