Week 14 Prospect Talk

[MSURacerDT55]

13 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Yeah I do not know why Twyman sat out, he could have solidified himself as the #1 DT no question about it.    Yeah Phillips I think should be no question gone by the 2nd round but maybe 1st rounder but kind of doubt 1st round with him but will see.  Rousseau is most likely the first DL taken but will see how he works out.  

 

Basham has played well but not sure he would be picked over Rousseau and Ojulari on Georgia could be a 1st rounder maybe as a 3/4 OLB but not sure he would be picked over Rousseau either.  And honestly Marvin Wilson is the only competition for Twyman at DT and he has not been anything amazing this year, kind of been disappointed the few times I saw him play.

 

There is not many top level DTs in the entire country, not many have stood out.  Bryan Bresee is an elite prospect though that is for sure, Christian Barmore has absolutely elite potential but he could end up being a 3/4 DE but could play DT in a 4/3 possibly.  He has a high ceiling and if he went out for the draft I could see him maybe sneaking into the 1st round because it is such a lack luster group.  Khyiris Tonga and Lorenzo Neal are good but both will be picked higher than they should possibly just because there are not many others out there, and both are probably more a NT especially Tonga.  

 

I  have to watch him more, but I'm not wasn't blown away by what I saw from him, I LOVE his hands, but do not like his motor nor his pad level at all.... Hopefully he puts it all together.

As far as Wilson, he's going to be a heck of a value for whoever picks him, he is probably going to slide, because he isn't a plus athlete for his size but damnit if he isnt a good football player between the snap, he is going to be a day 1 impact player when he gets 100% healthy.

Whats your take on Chris Rumph II? as well as Haskell Garrett who has been BALLING....

[Ozzy]

12 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I  have to watch him more, but I'm not wasn't blown away by what I saw from him, I LOVE his hands, but do not like his motor nor his pad level at all.... Hopefully he puts it all together.

As far as Wilson, he's going to be a heck of a value for whoever picks him, he is probably going to slide, because he isn't a plus athlete for his size but damnit if he isnt a good football player between the snap, he is going to be a day 1 impact player when he gets 100% healthy.

Whats your take on Chris Rumph II? as well as Haskell Garrett who has been BALLING....

Chris Rumph II I like when I have watched him, very athletic and long, is good at getting off blocks and has really showed up this season on a pretty poor Duke team overall.  At his size though might be more of a 3/4 OLB though but will see, I think he could benefit from another season honestly.  

 

Haskell Garrett I have liked and he has really impressed after not doing much his entire career.  This season he is showing up, and what he has come back from is pretty amazing so it is a great story.  I would say Tommy Togiai I have been a little more impressed with because I feel maybe he has more potential long term.  Surprised the ends have not shown out as much, I thought Tyreke Smith would have been way more dominating but this past week he showed up in a big way, just thought that would have been more consistent.  Has he been hurt in a few games?  And Zach Harrison I thought would be a lot better also but it is an odd time of course with the different schedule and on/off play.

 

Browning and Werner have been great at LB, both have increased their draft stock I feel.  

 

[MSURacerDT55]

33 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Chris Rumph II I like when I have watched him, very athletic and long, is good at getting off blocks and has really showed up this season on a pretty poor Duke team overall.  At his size though might be more of a 3/4 OLB though but will see, I think he could benefit from another season honestly.  

 

Haskell Garrett I have liked and he has really impressed after not doing much his entire career.  This season he is showing up, and what he has come back from is pretty amazing so it is a great story.  I would say Tommy Togiai I have been a little more impressed with because I feel maybe he has more potential long term.  Surprised the ends have not shown out as much, I thought Tyreke Smith would have been way more dominating but this past week he showed up in a big way, just thought that would have been more consistent.  Has he been hurt in a few games?  And Zach Harrison I thought would be a lot better also but it is an odd time of course with the different schedule and on/off play.

 

Browning and Werner have been great at LB, both have increased their draft stock I feel.  

 

I love literally everything about Rumph but his size, he is so natural rushing the passer, he has it all, technique, footwork, get off. Part of me wants him to come out where a team could stash him in the 3rd and bulk him up but if he stays and bulks up to at least 265, he'll be a first rounder easily 

I think Garrett worked himself up from little to no attention to at least a solid 4th round pick, Togiai though has been the sole reason tOSU has the #6 rush defense in the country. He does all of the little things that go unnoticed GREAT and is underrated as a pass rusher, Tyreke is a china doll, when he is out there he makes an impact but he has to get over the injury hurdle, I think Harrison is in the dog house with Johnson I think so his reps are down. 

Werner is probably the most underrated player in this class regardless of position, I wouldn't be surprised if he is a day 1 starter regardless of where he is drafted, he has it all, optimal size,  he is durable, has good athleticism, takes good angles, tackles well and will thump you and can cover but for some reason he get little to no recognition. 

Browning is getting better by the day as far as his fundamental skills, but he is a ++Athlete he probably test similar to Parsons, and is damned good as a rusher, and damned good in coverage. He is on the verge of putting it all together, I think NFL guys already covet his abilities and think they can coach him up.

[QBIso]

@MSURacerDT55 I love Chris Rumph. He’s gonna be a major steal. He can play all over a defense, but I envision his best spot being a 4-3 SAM backer in a blitz-heavy scheme. He’s just a damn good football player that can do a little bit of everything. Dude is hella productive and is one of those dudes that plays too hard to be a complete bust. He will be a late round draft pick due to some stiffness and a lack of size to play down in the dirt consistently, but I love him. He’s been one of my guys for a while now. 

[MOSteelers56]

Has Zaven Collins played himself into the top half of the 1st? 

[Scoundrel]

2 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Has Zaven Collins played himself into the top half of the 1st? 

Yes

[Ozzy]

4 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Has Zaven Collins played himself into the top half of the 1st? 

Top half?  I am not sure about that, I would say bottom half.  Athletically is a little bit of a question, also where he plays does he play ILB in a 3/4 or OLB.  He could do both but not sure he is a good enough pass rusher to play OLB all the time and is so good in coverage with his instincts might be a waste having him rush all the time.  But he is not the athlete KJ Britt is but he has not played much this season because of injury, and he is not faster than Monty Rice either but he is bigger and stronger at the point of attack.  The 3/4 OLB group is not very strong this year, Azeez Ojulari could be the best one arguably if he comes out, Joseph Ossai is playing DE on Texas a lot this year but not sure he could play in a 3/4, maybe he is a hell of an athlete and surprisingly tough as a pass rusher, still a little thin.  Patrick Jones could be a 3/4 OLB but most likely more a 4/3 DE.  Charles Snowden I have not got to see much but he has potential as a 3/4 OLB, same with Quincy Roche who could be a terror on the edge in a 3/4 or 4/3.  Jaelan Phillips maybe could play 3/4 OLB.  Andre Anthony has great improved as a pass rusher and he could be a 3/4 OLB and a good one and same with Cameron Goode.  

 

But overall not a great group of 3/4 OLBs, the ILBs are strong with the guys I said in Britt and Rice along with Dylan Moses, Paddy Fisher and Baron Browning.  

 

The best linebackers are Micah Parsons and Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah arguably.  Zaven Collins has great versatility and is playing as good as any linebacker in the country.  Is super smart and very athletic for his size, just curious what he will be at the next level.  He is not the athlete Parsons is or Owusu-Koramoah, but for a guy 6-4 260 he can move for sure.  Maybe 3/4 OLB would be best for him possibly, still that sack number he puts up against not amazing comp is a little bit of a question.

 

 

Collin Miller was playing amazing football in a 3/4 at ILB, awesome blitzing and with his range but did get badly hurt this year.  If he can come back strong though he could be a great 3rd or 4th round pick.  Erroll Thompson has shown decent ability as well for a inside backer, same with Jake Hansen and Jack Sanborn but not sure Sanborn will declare.  Blake Gallagher could be a great ILB in a 3/4 he has good range, and Jabril Cox even has versatility in coverage that is very impressive.  

 

 

Hamilcar Rashed Jr has been a disappointment, after a 14 sack year has zero this season I believe.  Two guys JoJo Domann and Jamar Watson could be interesting 3/4 LBs potentially, especially Watson who could go higher than some think.  Daelin Hayes has 3/4 OLB potential with his athletic ability, same with Shaka Toney and JaQuan Bailey.  Patrick Johnson has been impressive too as a pass rusher and has a good thick build.  

 

They put Marcus Allen that Penn State safety at linebacker, who is that working out?   If they are looking for smaller athletic linebackers with range in the middle Antjuan Simmons could be very interesting there, he is super fast and a strong tackler, same with Jahad Woods.

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Ozzy

[QBIso]

Zaven Collins is another splash play linebacker. I worry about his consistent fits in the run game. He makes a ton of great plays and a ton of bleh plays. It’s hard to develop run fit instincts in a LBer if they don’t have it in college. 
 

As someone that coaches linebackers, I can usually predict the flops and the studs. I know it’s gonna be perceived as a comp based on namesake, but I see Zaven and Jamie Collins being similar players.

I have whiffed way too many times on high upside linebackers that lacked fill/scrape/flow instincts. 
 

Call me a lunatic, but my top LBer this year outside of Parsons is Paddy Fisher. He has some definite stiffness, but his reads are crispy clean and he knows how to play to his strengths. He needs to play in a system that employs 3 or 4 LBers consistently though, as he isn’t athletic enough to 2-gap and still get over the top of down blocks in the meantime. So like, a bad fit for Joe Woods’ defense (who sucks btw). 

[jrry32]

22 hours ago, QBIso said:

@MSURacerDT55 I love Chris Rumph. He’s gonna be a major steal. He can play all over a defense, but I envision his best spot being a 4-3 SAM backer in a blitz-heavy scheme. He’s just a damn good football player that can do a little bit of everything. Dude is hella productive and is one of those dudes that plays too hard to be a complete bust. He will be a late round draft pick due to some stiffness and a lack of size to play down in the dirt consistently, but I love him. He’s been one of my guys for a while now. 

How is he setting the edge? I know the Rams value guys who can set the edge and drop into coverage in this new scheme.

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Top half?  I am not sure about that, I would say bottom half.  Athletically is a little bit of a question, also where he plays does he play ILB in a 3/4 or OLB.  He could do both but not sure he is a good enough pass rusher to play OLB all the time and is so good in coverage with his instincts might be a waste having him rush all the time.  But he is not the athlete KJ Britt is but he has not played much this season because of injury, and he is not faster than Monty Rice either but he is bigger and stronger at the point of attack.  The 3/4 OLB group is not very strong this year, Azeez Ojulari could be the best one arguably if he comes out, Joseph Ossai is playing DE on Texas a lot this year but not sure he could play in a 3/4, maybe he is a hell of an athlete and surprisingly tough as a pass rusher, still a little thin.  Patrick Jones could be a 3/4 OLB but most likely more a 4/3 DE.  Charles Snowden I have not got to see much but he has potential as a 3/4 OLB, same with Quincy Roche who could be a terror on the edge in a 3/4 or 4/3.  Jaelan Phillips maybe could play 3/4 OLB.  Andre Anthony has great improved as a pass rusher and he could be a 3/4 OLB and a good one and same with Cameron Goode.  

 

But overall not a great group of 3/4 OLBs, the ILBs are strong with the guys I said in Britt and Rice along with Dylan Moses, Paddy Fisher and Baron Browning.  

 

The best linebackers are Micah Parsons and Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah arguably.  Zaven Collins has great versatility and is playing as good as any linebacker in the country.  Is super smart and very athletic for his size, just curious what he will be at the next level.  He is not the athlete Parsons is or Owusu-Koramoah, but for a guy 6-4 260 he can move for sure.  Maybe 3/4 OLB would be best for him possibly, still that sack number he puts up against not amazing comp is a little bit of a question.

 

 

Collin Miller was playing amazing football in a 3/4 at ILB, awesome blitzing and with his range but did get badly hurt this year.  If he can come back strong though he could be a great 3rd or 4th round pick.  Erroll Thompson has shown decent ability as well for a inside backer, same with Jake Hansen and Jack Sanborn but not sure Sanborn will declare.  Blake Gallagher could be a great ILB in a 3/4 he has good range, and Jabril Cox even has versatility in coverage that is very impressive.  

 

 

Hamilcar Rashed Jr has been a disappointment, after a 14 sack year has zero this season I believe.  Two guys JoJo Domann and Jamar Watson could be interesting 3/4 LBs potentially, especially Watson who could go higher than some think.  Daelin Hayes has 3/4 OLB potential with his athletic ability, same with Shaka Toney and JaQuan Bailey.  Patrick Johnson has been impressive too as a pass rusher and has a good thick build.  

 

They put Marcus Allen that Penn State safety at linebacker, who is that working out?   If they are looking for smaller athletic linebackers with range in the middle Antjuan Simmons could be very interesting there, he is super fast and a strong tackler, same with Jahad Woods.

 

Bolton from Mizzou was absolutely everywhere when the Gators played them. Seems like a kid who has big time instincts (and lays the wood).

[QBIso]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

They put Marcus Allen that Penn State safety at linebacker, who is that working out?   If they are looking for smaller athletic linebackers with range in the middle Antjuan Simmons could be very interesting there, he is super fast and a strong tackler, same with Jahad Woods.

I don’t see Simmons flash the instincts necessary be a great pro. Woods on the other hand, looks awesome. I think he could be the dude that ends up being a surprise 1st rounder kinda like Jordyn Brooks was last year. He has excellent feel and eyes plus fantastic burst and agility. He looks to be an ideal WLB, but could play in the middle too without issues. His angles keep him clean without sacrificing space in the running lanes. He’s surprisingly good against power running teams despite his lack of size. 
 

Jack Sanborn is another good one. He is definitely stiff, but the reads are there and he will eat up power run schemes all day long. He’s actually great in coverage despite not being someone that can match up with athletes in man-man. But his feel in zone and his ability to rob crossers is fantastic. 
 

 

This LB class is pretty good, but there are some guys near the top that I don’t really think should be getting the kind of pub they are. 
 

Parsons is not very good at reading either, but the dude is such a freak of nature that I think you can overlook some of his mental deficiencies. Plus he won’t likely be playing MIKE in a 4-3. He’ll be a stud chess piece that can rush and cover TE’s. But keep him away from reading guards if you can!

Dylan Moses is terrible at reading. I think he’s gonna flop as an inside backer. Plus he’s not really long enough to play OLB as a hybrid rusher. He covers a lot of ground, but his eyes and angles are all over the place. He misses the simplest of reads and flow. I acknowledge  ceiling, but I am horrified by his inefficient reads and angles.

 

I like Chris Rumph as a SLB convert. 

[QBIso]

5 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

How is he setting the edge? I know the Rams value guys who can set the edge and drop into coverage in this new scheme.

Rumph has excellent hands, which allows him to set a firm edge consistently. 

5 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Bolton from Mizzou was absolutely everywhere when the Gators played them. Seems like a kid who has big time instincts (and lays the wood).

Bolton is everywhere. Reminds me of D’Qwell Jackson coming out. He’s got somewhat of a slow trigger against power runs, but he understands how to get in on every tackle. Not much of a TFL guy, but he’s not fast enough to be a gap shooter. He plays to his strengths. 

[Ozzy]

55 minutes ago, QBIso said:

Zaven Collins is another splash play linebacker. I worry about his consistent fits in the run game. He makes a ton of great plays and a ton of bleh plays. It’s hard to develop run fit instincts in a LBer if they don’t have it in college. 
 

As someone that coaches linebackers, I can usually predict the flops and the studs. I know it’s gonna be perceived as a comp based on namesake, but I see Zaven and Jamie Collins being similar players.

I have whiffed way too many times on high upside linebackers that lacked fill/scrape/flow instincts. 
 

Call me a lunatic, but my top LBer this year outside of Parsons is Paddy Fisher. He has some definite stiffness, but his reads are crispy clean and he knows how to play to his strengths. He needs to play in a system that employs 3 or 4 LBers consistently though, as he isn’t athletic enough to 2-gap and still get over the top of down blocks in the meantime. So like, a bad fit for Joe Woods’ defense (who sucks btw). 

Jamie Collins?  Zaven Collins is not that great of an athlete compared to Jamie Collins who ran a 4.61 40 with a 40+" vertical.  I remember Collins being an undersized DE at times early on Southern Miss and being pretty thin out there.  Zaven Collins is a thick dude and I would be shocked if he is that great athletically in the tests but if so great for him.  With his size he could easily end up as a 3/4 OLB opposite a superior rusher or a 4/3 DE in a team that moves their ends or drops them in coverage a lot.  

 

I love Paddy Fisher but could maybe be too old school for a linebacker in this day and age.  In coverage he could be a question but hopefully he gets with the right system and can succeed, his teammate Gallagher has been great for Northwestern as well this year.  

 

43 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

 

Bolton from Mizzou was absolutely everywhere when the Gators played them. Seems like a kid who has big time instincts (and lays the wood).

Bolton I like just not sure how great he really is, there have been a few tackling machines at linebacker for Mizzou the last few years and few turn out to be anything great in the NFL.  Bolton has a good build though no doubt about it.  

 

41 minutes ago, QBIso said:

I don’t see Simmons flash the instincts necessary be a great pro. Woods on the other hand, looks awesome. I think he could be the dude that ends up being a surprise 1st rounder kinda like Jordyn Brooks was last year. He has excellent feel and eyes plus fantastic burst and agility. He looks to be an ideal WLB, but could play in the middle too without issues. His angles keep him clean without sacrificing space in the running lanes. He’s surprisingly good against power running teams despite his lack of size. 
 

Jack Sanborn is another good one. He is definitely stiff, but the reads are there and he will eat up power run schemes all day long. He’s actually great in coverage despite not being someone that can match up with athletes in man-man. But his feel in zone and his ability to rob crossers is fantastic. 
 

 

This LB class is pretty good, but there are some guys near the top that I don’t really think should be getting the kind of pub they are. 
 

Parsons is not very good at reading either, but the dude is such a freak of nature that I think you can overlook some of his mental deficiencies. Plus he won’t likely be playing MIKE in a 4-3. He’ll be a stud chess piece that can rush and cover TE’s. But keep him away from reading guards if you can!

Dylan Moses is terrible at reading. I think he’s gonna flop as an inside backer. Plus he’s not really long enough to play OLB as a hybrid rusher. He covers a lot of ground, but his eyes and angles are all over the place. He misses the simplest of reads and flow. I acknowledge  ceiling, but I am horrified by his inefficient reads and angles.

 

I like Chris Rumph as a SLB convert. 

Simmons I feel is greatly instinctive, he is quick to react and read the play, can get in the gaps and make plays behind the line of scrimmage constantly.  If put in the right system I think he will do very well, is really undersized but he really can fly around and make plays.  He has been good against every team he has played this year.  

Moses I agree has not been great this year but there are times he looks really good.  I think he has been hurt by being with such a lack luster group of LBs.  He has to cover up a lot for them I feel.  He cannot be as aggressive as he would like to be I think.  I agree he cannot play OLB no question.

Not sure Woods can be a 1st rounder, but he really can move and tackle for a smaller linebacker.  Jordyn Brooks I was never a huge fan of, amazing athletically when he timed and is solid but no way he is ever Bobby Wagner or something.  I think he has just been ok for Seattle this year nothing super impactful just yet but he is just a rookie still.  

[MOSteelers56]

14 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Top half?  I am not sure about that, I would say bottom half.  Athletically is a little bit of a question, also where he plays does he play ILB in a 3/4 or OLB.  He could do both but not sure he is a good enough pass rusher to play OLB all the time and is so good in coverage with his instincts might be a waste having him rush all the time.  But he is not the athlete KJ Britt is but he has not played much this season because of injury, and he is not faster than Monty Rice either but he is bigger and stronger at the point of attack.  The 3/4 OLB group is not very strong this year, Azeez Ojulari could be the best one arguably if he comes out, Joseph Ossai is playing DE on Texas a lot this year but not sure he could play in a 3/4, maybe he is a hell of an athlete and surprisingly tough as a pass rusher, still a little thin.  Patrick Jones could be a 3/4 OLB but most likely more a 4/3 DE.  Charles Snowden I have not got to see much but he has potential as a 3/4 OLB, same with Quincy Roche who could be a terror on the edge in a 3/4 or 4/3.  Jaelan Phillips maybe could play 3/4 OLB.  Andre Anthony has great improved as a pass rusher and he could be a 3/4 OLB and a good one and same with Cameron Goode.  

 

But overall not a great group of 3/4 OLBs, the ILBs are strong with the guys I said in Britt and Rice along with Dylan Moses, Paddy Fisher and Baron Browning.  

 

The best linebackers are Micah Parsons and Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah arguably.  Zaven Collins has great versatility and is playing as good as any linebacker in the country.  Is super smart and very athletic for his size, just curious what he will be at the next level.  He is not the athlete Parsons is or Owusu-Koramoah, but for a guy 6-4 260 he can move for sure.  Maybe 3/4 OLB would be best for him possibly, still that sack number he puts up against not amazing comp is a little bit of a question.

 

 

Collin Miller was playing amazing football in a 3/4 at ILB, awesome blitzing and with his range but did get badly hurt this year.  If he can come back strong though he could be a great 3rd or 4th round pick.  Erroll Thompson has shown decent ability as well for a inside backer, same with Jake Hansen and Jack Sanborn but not sure Sanborn will declare.  Blake Gallagher could be a great ILB in a 3/4 he has good range, and Jabril Cox even has versatility in coverage that is very impressive.  

 

 

Hamilcar Rashed Jr has been a disappointment, after a 14 sack year has zero this season I believe.  Two guys JoJo Domann and Jamar Watson could be interesting 3/4 LBs potentially, especially Watson who could go higher than some think.  Daelin Hayes has 3/4 OLB potential with his athletic ability, same with Shaka Toney and JaQuan Bailey.  Patrick Johnson has been impressive too as a pass rusher and has a good thick build.  

 

They put Marcus Allen that Penn State safety at linebacker, who is that working out?   If they are looking for smaller athletic linebackers with range in the middle Antjuan Simmons could be very interesting there, he is super fast and a strong tackler, same with Jahad Woods.

 

I was envisioning him as a bigger 3-4 ILB. Almost like a 3 down BUCK. The Steelers already have their chase guy in Devin Bush. I like the idea of a big moveable chess piece that can cover and stop the run well. Marcus Allen has been bad enough to not see the field until this year when he's been pretty average. Definitely not a guy to alter draft plans. 

[BrownLeader]

I've been mocking LSU's Jabril Cox and WVU's Tony Fields in the late first, mid 2 round range. Am I crazy?