Developing Players For The Lions

[Just Want A Title]

One of the things about this game that stood out to me was the contributions of some younger players.  This has been a problem since Matt Patricia took over and he might have made Bob Quinn look worse as a talent evaluator then it would appear on the surface.  It may only be one game but we finally saw significant contributions from  our younger players.  What stood out to me:

1.  John Penisini, has already become a solid role player.  He seems to get a noticeably better every week.  Bob Quinn got this 6th-round pick right.

2. Kevin Strong seemed like he was doing fairly well last year but ended up on the Practice Squad after we signed Danny Shelton and Nick Williams.  He flashed again today.  He seems a lot more active than Danny Shelton.  I hope he continues to see meaningful playing time.

3. Don't look now but TJ Hockenson is putting together a fairly strong season.  Better coaching could make him an even better weapon.

4.  Quintez Cephus flashed early in the year but got pushed down the depth chart.  He could really flourish with Golladay on the field.

5. Jonah Jackson is playing really well.  Bob Quinn got this 3rd round draft pick right.

6.  Tyrell Crosby was solid at RT last year when he was given a chance and has been solid this year.  Not sure why they spent big dollars on a free agent.  That is a pretty good outcome for a fifth round pick.  

7.  Matt Nelson is a converted D-Lineman.  He had his problems with Khalil Mack today but who doesn't have those problems.  He already looks like a fairly solid back-up.  

8.  He may not be a "young guy" but Taylor Decker deservers a lot of credit for playing an a very high level consistently this year.  

 

Bob Quinn may have made some questionable signings in free agency but he was been able to find good talent.  I may already be "drinking a little Kool Aid" but whoever is coaching the Lions next year will have some solid pieces in-place from the start.

 

 

[Superduperman]

1 hour ago, Just Want A Title said:

One of the things about this game that stood out to me was the contributions of some younger players.  This has been a problem since Matt Patricia took over and he might have made Bob Quinn look worse as a talent evaluator then it would appear on the surface.  It may only be one game but we finally saw significant contributions from  our younger players.  What stood out to me:

1.  John Penisini, has already become a solid role player.  He seems to get a noticeably better every week.  Bob Quinn got this 6th-round pick right.

2. Kevin Strong seemed like he was doing fairly well last year but ended up on the Practice Squad after we signed Danny Shelton and Nick Williams.  He flashed again today.  He seems a lot more active than Danny Shelton.  I hope he continues to see meaningful playing time.

3. Don't look now but TJ Hockenson is putting together a fairly strong season.  Better coaching could make him an even better weapon.

4.  Quintez Cephus flashed early in the year but got pushed down the depth chart.  He could really flourish with Golladay on the field.

5. Jonah Jackson is playing really well.  Bob Quinn got this 3rd round draft pick right.

6.  Tyrell Crosby was solid at RT last year when he was given a chance and has been solid this year.  Not sure why they spent big dollars on a free agent.  That is a pretty good outcome for a fifth round pick.  

7.  Matt Nelson is a converted D-Lineman.  He had his problems with Khalil Mack today but who doesn't have those problems.  He already looks like a fairly solid back-up.  

8.  He may not be a "young guy" but Taylor Decker deservers a lot of credit for playing an a very high level consistently this year.  

 

Bob Quinn may have made some questionable signings in free agency but he was been able to find good talent.  I may already be "drinking a little Kool Aid" but whoever is coaching the Lions next year will have some solid pieces in-place from the start.

 

 

You're being wildly positive on a few guys. Penisini and Strong are nothing but a warm bodies on an all-time bad defensive line. If either of them were real players, they'd be head and shoulders better than anyone else they're playing with. Crosby and Nelson have not been "solid" if you ask me. The Lions are terrible running to that side and pass protection from the RT position has been poor. All of these guys are only good enough to look no worse than everyone else on the Lions at their positions. 

I think Cephus can be a NFL wide receiver. I think he can be. But if it were obvious, he already would be.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Superduperman

[Just Want A Title]

Maybe a better way to put this is that Bob Quinn was able to find some talented players but I am pretty sure Matt Patricia was terrible at developing them.  He seemed better at coaching a system than developing players.  Both Penisini this year and Strong last year were pretty solid as role players.  The coaching staff had "their guys" (Shelton and Nick Williams) so they didn't get increased snaps even after earning them. 

As far as Quintez Cephus goes, you should remember that Kenny Golladay didn't put up monster stats as a rookie (28 reception and 477 yards).  He had a decent start to the season.  and then sort of got buried.  He has 12 receptions with four games to go and a coaching staff that now wants to give him some consistent playing time.  He will probably get about 22-25 receptions.  

Another good example of how bad Matt Patricia was at developing players is Travis Fulgham.  He had zero receptions as a rookie and was cut after training camp.  Stats with Philadelphia:  33 receptions and 4 TDs.  

Bob Quinn mad his share of mistakes but he did make some solid draft picks.  I wouldn't be surprised to see other players make a big jump with better coaching.

[diehardlionfan]

Good post.  Swift, when playing and given reps looks like a quality pick as well.

TJ isn’t responsible for where he was drafted so it shouldn’t be held against him as some do. His blocking has really improved and as you mentioned he’s quietly putting together a good season. He’s developing chemistry with Stafford, so I hope that improvement continues.

Penisini has also been improving. He may develop into more than a role player with more coaching. Some of these DT would also be more effective as part of a more talented position group. Draft or sign a DT capable of penetrating and the rest will improve.

I agree about Cephus. He needs more reps and more balls thrown his way but he has displayed some talent.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by diehardlionfan

[Lions017]

Quinn seemed to be good at finding decent players, but he found very few stars. 

I'm not sure if that's more on Quinn, who maybe preferred more proven players that didn't have as much upside, or on Patricia for not developing them properly. Probably a bit of both. 

[Nnivolcm]

I think it's clear developing players is one of the many aspects Patricia was terrible at. 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

On 12/6/2020 at 7:46 PM, Just Want A Title said:

Another good example of how bad Matt Patricia was at developing players is Travis Fulgham.  He had zero receptions as a rookie and was cut after training camp.  Stats with Philadelphia:  33 receptions and 4 TDs.  

The Packers cut Fulgham too.

The issue with Quinn's drafts come down to position. I believe that a GM needs to hit on first and second round picks to be successful. In the last three years, Quinn spent two second round picks on RBs, reached for an ILB in the second round and took a TE in the top 10. If you're going to make those picks, those players have to be elite. So far, that hasn't been the case.

[SimbaWho]

21 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

Good post.  Swift, when playing and given reps looks like a quality pick as well.

TJ isn’t responsible for where he was drafted so it shouldn’t be held against him as some do. His blocking has really improved and as you mentioned he’s quietly putting together a good season. He’s developing chemistry with Stafford, so I hope that improvement continues.

Penisini has also been improving. He may develop into more than a role player with more coaching. Some of these DT would also be more effective as part of a more talented position group. Draft or sign a DT capable of penetrating and the rest will improve.

I agree about Cephus. He needs more reps and more balls thrown his way but he has displayed some talent.

 

 

TJ the player wasn't ever the problem.

The staff that selected him at 8 overall is the problem. 

 

That said there is some nifty things to look at for the next staff like Matt Nelson/Cephus/Strong/Penisini/Okwara.

Solid Oline to work with to start a rebuild, could improve a lot by upgrading RG or RT or BOTH. 

I'm not patting a staff on the back for having a handful of goodies with top selections and multiple drafts/off-seasons while being handed a franchise QB in his prime. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by SimbaWho