Week 14: VIKINGS (6-6) at Bucs (7-5)

[VikeManDan]

29 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

That is deceptive because they should have beat the Titans, they should have beat the Seahawks, and all honesty they should have beat the Bucs if the kicker could make kicks.  It was a total air balloon burst when the kicker started missing kicks in this game.  And really they should not have lost to the Cowboys, they should not have barely won against the Panthers or the Jaguars.

 

So they have tons of issues especially on the offensive line, but even with the sloppy play overall with penalties and turnovers they still are competitive oddly enough.  Think how they would look with a healthy Hunter, Kendricks and Barr and with a OL that can block or a kicker that could kick.  All told they have had a solid season even if they miss the playoffs and honestly they should miss the playoffs.  The draft has been very successful and hard to not like that, it is easily better than the 2018 and 2019 draft classes.

That’s a lot of should’ve’s....

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

That is deceptive because they should have beat the Titans, they should have beat the Seahawks, and all honesty they should have beat the Bucs if the kicker could make kicks.  It was a total air balloon burst when the kicker started missing kicks in this game.  And really they should not have lost to the Cowboys, they should not have barely won against the Panthers or the Jaguars.

 

So they have tons of issues especially on the offensive line, but even with the sloppy play overall with penalties and turnovers they still are competitive oddly enough.  Think how they would look with a healthy Hunter, Kendricks and Barr and with a OL that can block or a kicker that could kick.  All told they have had a solid season even if they miss the playoffs and honestly they should miss the playoffs.  The draft has been very successful and hard to not like that, it is easily better than the 2018 and 2019 draft classes.

I appreciate your optimism, but they don't have "could've, should've, might've" in the stat line for a reason.

[Ozzy]

30 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said:

They didn't beat any of those.... that probably not a coincidence.....

Sure but you say that Seattle loss was not BS and they played well enough to win it?  They absolutely should have won that game and that can be said for many games.  Missed kicks, bad clock management, bad defense because of youthful corners, turnovers, penalties etc.  There are reasons and they lost games because of them but to call this some all time awful Vikings team, no.  Looked like it from the get go but they are clearly a decent team if they can fix some issues, starting with the offensive line in pass pro.  Kirk has played pretty damn impressive football as well, something I thought I would not say this year. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Sure but you say that Seattle loss was not BS and they played well enough to win it?  They absolutely should have won that game and that can be said for many games.  Missed kicks, bad clock management, bad defense because of youthful corners, turnovers, penalties etc.  There are reasons and they lost games because of them but to call this some all time awful Vikings team, no.  Looked like it from the get go but they are clearly a decent team if they can fix some issues, starting with the offensive line in pass pro.  Kirk has played pretty damn impressive football as well, something I thought I would not say this year. 

Again...appreciate your optimism, but Cousins, Zimmer, Cook, Kubiak are paid to beat teams...bad teams, mediocre teams and good teams.  Do I think it's all their fault? No.  The online, while improved, is not very good against really good dlines.  The young cornerbacks still get exposed by good route runners.  And the special teams...good God...are just awful against everyone. 

[PrplChilPill]

24 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Sure but you say that Seattle loss was not BS and they played well enough to win it?  They absolutely should have won that game and that can be said for many games.  Missed kicks, bad clock management, bad defense because of youthful corners, turnovers, penalties etc.  There are reasons and they lost games because of them but to call this some all time awful Vikings team, no.  Looked like it from the get go but they are clearly a decent team if they can fix some issues, starting with the offensive line in pass pro.  Kirk has played pretty damn impressive football as well, something I thought I would not say this year. 

They lost,  and then lost again, and again and again, etc. Make all the excuses you want, they have not beat a good team other than Green Bay.  Not one.  

[Ozzy]

13 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said:

Again...appreciate your optimism, but Cousins, Zimmer, Cook, Kubiak are paid to beat teams...bad teams, mediocre teams and good teams.  Do I think it's all their fault? No.  The online, while improved, is not very good against really good dlines.  The young cornerbacks still get exposed by good route runners.  And the special teams...good God...are just awful against everyone. 

Lose your expectations of the team, sure on paper they could have become a big time threat to be a playoff team today.  Fact is they are a youthful football team with a lot of injuries, young players and a bad OL at pass pro.  Why should they be a playoff team?  They should not.

Hunter is a pro bowler, Barr is a pro bowler, Kendricks is a pro bowler and all did not play obviously in this game and Barr and Hunter have basically missed the entire season.  And they lost basically every experienced CB on the roster from last year to free agency or injury.  Oh and traded away their supposed best pass rusher a few weeks into the season after trading for him to start the year.

The fact they have the best rookie WR in the NFL, one of the top performing QBs in the 4th QB in the NFL and arguably the best RB in the NFL.  That is something to build on, not to mention how well the rookies have played on D at points in the season.  Wonnum has more than flashed, Gladney struggles but at least fights, and Dantzler has been decent when out there.  Lynch gets some push, Cleveland has show promise as a OG a big need position for the team.  Irv has developed as a TE, etc.  The young guys have developed and played well in a throw away season basically that is fanless pretty much.  So any time to build it would be this year.  And the QB who is overpaid is getting killed back there, yet still fights, does not get hurt, shows more emotion and is communicated better with his teammates and showing much better pocket fundamentals and awareness overall.  

 

Just now, PrplChilPill said:

They lost,  and then lost again, and again and again, etc. Make all the excuses you want, they have not beat a good team other than Green Bay.  Not one.  

Then go in the corner and cry or something.  If you cannot see the reality of this football team and who is out there playing and why things are happening, I cannot help you.  They only had three of the best players at their positions in the NFL on defense all out for this game, two of which have been out basically the entire season.  And like I said above they have zero corners from last year that played in this game and many of them, name me another NFL team that can say that.  No one can, Mike Hughes was the only hold over along with Holton Hill and both have been injured for awhile and Hill was just cut recently I believe.  Yeah defense might struggle a little against that, outside of the fact clearly they have OL pass blocking issues.  Yet still with all that, if the kicker made some kicks it would have been a different game potentially.

If you cannot see the growth and development, not to mention promise of the rookies on the roster compared to the past two rookie classes, well look again.

[PrplChilPill]

25 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Lose your expectations of the team, sure on paper they could have become a big time threat to be a playoff team today.  Fact is they are a youthful football team with a lot of injuries, young players and a bad OL at pass pro.  Why should they be a playoff team?  They should not.

Hunter is a pro bowler, Barr is a pro bowler, Kendricks is a pro bowler and all did not play obviously in this game and Barr and Hunter have basically missed the entire season.  And they lost basically every experienced CB on the roster from last year to free agency or injury.  Oh and traded away their supposed best pass rusher a few weeks into the season after trading for him to start the year.

The fact they have the best rookie WR in the NFL, one of the top performing QBs in the 4th QB in the NFL and arguably the best RB in the NFL.  That is something to build on, not to mention how well the rookies have played on D at points in the season.  Wonnum has more than flashed, Gladney struggles but at least fights, and Dantzler has been decent when out there.  Lynch gets some push, Cleveland has show promise as a OG a big need position for the team.  Irv has developed as a TE, etc.  The young guys have developed and played well in a throw away season basically that is fanless pretty much.  So any time to build it would be this year.  And the QB who is overpaid is getting killed back there, yet still fights, does not get hurt, shows more emotion and is communicated better with his teammates and showing much better pocket fundamentals and awareness overall.  

 

Then go in the corner and cry or something.  If you cannot see the reality of this football team and who is out there playing and why things are happening, I cannot help you.  They only had three of the best players at their positions in the NFL on defense all out for this game, two of which have been out basically the entire season.  And like I said above they have zero corners from last year that played in this game and many of them, name me another NFL team that can say that.  No one can, Mike Hughes was the only hold over along with Holton Hill and both have been injured for awhile and Hill was just cut recently I believe.  Yeah defense might struggle a little against that, outside of the fact clearly they have OL pass blocking issues.  Yet still with all that, if the kicker made some kicks it would have been a different game potentially.

If you cannot see the growth and development, not to mention promise of the rookies on the roster compared to the past two rookie classes, well look again.

I'm not crying, the post you responded to said they hadn't beat a good team, then you basically said we should ignore that.....I'm suggesting they are what they are. Mediocre.

[Ozzy]

Just now, PrplChilPill said:

I'm not crying, the post you responded to said they hadn't beat a good team, then you basically said we should ignore that.....I'm suggesting they are what they are. Mediocre.

And I said they came damn close to beating some very good teams and honestly should have beat them including this current weeks game.

 

Starting Vikings corners against Tampa in a base nickel defense, Jeff Gladney, Cameron Dantzler and Chris Jones.  Two are rookies clearly the other one is who, I have no clue honestly and barely even noticed him at Nebraska, has put up decent fight when out there but is an obvious UDFA but beat Holton Hill out apparently.  

 

 

Of the top 15 tacklers off last years team, Vikings lost 11 of those 15 if you include the three who were injured in this game and did not play.  

 

Say one considers a base nickel defense, they lost Joseph, Waynes, Alexander, Rhodes, Griffen, and if you throw in Hunter, Kendricks and Barr because of injury that is 8 out of 11 starters gone.  Only ones left would be Harrison Smith, Anthony Harris, and what Jaleel Johnson/Stephen?

 

Much less in a freaking pandemic with little to no off season practice time.  Considering all they lost and the rebuild they are in, I would say this second half of the season has been more than impressive.  Some awful loses with stupid plays, turnovers and penalties but still they were either in the game or still found a way to win the game despite the turnovers or absolutely terrible pass protection.  There is zero teams in the NFL who start two rookie corners and have done so for awhile, I do not even have to check that because I know it is correct.  How they still hold up and compete as a team is impressive. 

 

Disappointing yeah sure, especially coming off that playoff win season but after going 1-5 to start, at least they have turned the ship around and are making a push for the playoffs most thought would never happen.  Does not really matter if they make the playoffs, at least they turned it around and fought.  

[vikingsrule]

Seems special teams has been the biggest hindrance on this team this year, maybe even more so than the young defense or injuries.

How many games has ST cost us? It’s always something new I’m squarely putting the blame on Bailey for this loss. The offense and defense was in control and setting the tempo just to see Bailey fail and shift momentum. 
 

It’s likely pointless in letting him go at this stage however. Is a new kicker off the street really going to be ready to go for the playoffs in three weeks? I suppose you could argue the same for Bailey too. He’s mentally gone. 

[Sad People]

Didn’t get a chance to watch but it’s the outcome I was expecting. Alas another year dedicated to mediocrity. 

[vikingsrule]

37 minutes ago, mattyice0401 said:

Didn’t get a chance to watch but it’s the outcome I was expecting. Alas another year dedicated to mediocrity. 

Closing the year with win against Chicago and Detroit would be fitting, to end 8-8. 
 

 

[twslhs20]

2 hours ago, vikingsrule said:

Closing the year with win against Chicago and Detroit would be fitting, to end 8-8. 
 

 

Yeah. We had a shot at a top pick, and landed within STDEV of average. If you're the Vikings, you're mediocre. Its what you do.

People complain about the Oline, and special teams. Well when guys like Barr and Cousins are on obscene contracts, there is less to go around. So this is what you get. Less talented players. Unless you draft well. Which we haven't on the line.

This is what the Vikings are. This making the playoffs talk is equal too delusions of grandeur. This team isn't well rounded, and flawed at it's core.

[Uncle Buck]

I agree with most of what Ozzy said above (except the part about telling a fellow Vikings fan to go cry in the corner).  He pretty much covered a lot of what caused us to be where we are at this season.  We have some good pieces, but there are so many holes on the defense for various reasons, that making the playoffs is/was probably a bit much to hope for.  I predicted a 6 win season earlier in the off-season, because I figured it would take a while for our rookie corners to get used to things and we would miss Stefon Diggs a lot.  The corners have taken the expected lumps that you have to take as a rookie, but they are starting to look better as the season wears on.  We haven't missed Diggs near as much as I thought we would because we had the right guy fall to us in the draft.  Justin Jefferson has been the steal of the draft so far, IMO.

One thing that I was overly pessimistic about was the play of our offensive line.  I expected them to be absolutely brutal.  While that has been the case at times, they have also exceeded my expectations too.  The big bright spots were the improvement of Garrett Bradbury.  He put on some weight over the off-season and has improved greatly with a year of experience under his belt.  Other pleasant surprises have been the improved play of Riley Rieff compared to last season's performance, and Ezra Cleveland's emergence as a pretty solid guard.  The only real weak spot on the offensive line at this point is at the left guard position.  We need to get a good one in the draft to replace Dozier. 

Another nice surprise has been the development of D.J. Wonnum at defensive end.  As was the case with Danielle Hunter, he is looking like he could turn into a good one for us on the edge.  Not bad at all for a fourth (?) round pick. 

Overall, this year hasn't been a disappointment for me.  It was a year when I expected us to be going through a transition to some younger players, and things went pretty much the way I expected them to go.  Having said that, I am really looking forward to next season because I think we could be a greatly improved team.  We will see the return of Hunter, Kendricks, and Pierce in the front seven.  Barr will be healthy too, but if it were up to me, I'd let Barr go and stick with Wilson.  There hasn't been much, if any, drop-off from Barr to him.  

Our offensive line is getting better, we have a very good running back in Dalvin Cook, two excellent receivers, a good young tight end, and a quarterback who, is playing better and whose contract isn't as out of line with the rest of the league as it used to be.  Our offense should be a good unit next year. 

Special teams needs A LOT of work in the off-season, starting with a new special teams coordinator, and more than likely, a new kicker.

Overall, I could see this team winning the division, and being a player in the post season next year.  Hang in there Vikings fans.  This team IS going in the right direction, even though it doesn't always look like it.  We have a lot to look forward to!

[gopherwrestler]

I personally believe we lost because of our kicker.

[vikingsrule]

9 hours ago, twslhs20 said:

Yeah. We had a shot at a top pick, and landed within STDEV of average. If you're the Vikings, you're mediocre. Its what you do.

People complain about the Oline, and special teams. Well when guys like Barr and Cousins are on obscene contracts, there is less to go around. So this is what you get. Less talented players. Unless you draft well. Which we haven't on the line.

This is what the Vikings are. This making the playoffs talk is equal too delusions of grandeur. This team isn't well rounded, and flawed at it's core.

I think the OL is coming around. Bradbury, Cleveland and O’Neill are good building blocks. Reiff is solid for now but expensive. Tackle and Left Guard should still be priorities, unless they want to move Cleveland to LT and find a RG, which might be a necessity to save money by dumping Reiff. 
 

Barr and Rudolph are likely not returning. MN showed against Tampa they don’t need Rudolph. 8 catches from the TEs is very good production. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by vikingsrule