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Official 2021 WR Thread


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32 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I love route runners. Let's not bring up Jerry Rice though. He's one of a kind.

 I like all the WR's you mentioned. Waddle can run great routes AND he has elite game breaking speed and YAC ability.

Ruggs was not nearly as polished coming out compared to Waddle. Ruggs was a slight reach at 12. Waddle is a top 10 borderline top 5 player in this class. I don't think Ruggs and Waddle are comparable as prospects.

Ruggs had a bad game last week, but has been banged up and has still made a massive contribution to the Raiders offense. He has opened up everything for everyone around him and also is nearly leading the league in explosive plays on 3-4 targets a week. You can judge him on numbers, but he has nearly single-handedly changed the offense. Look at the points scored in games with him vs games without him.

Jefferson is a great player, but I think it's way too early to count out Ruggs considering he's far from a finished product and even in his current state can change the game on one play. He doesn't have to ever produce like Jefferson to have incredible value to this team. Just like Hill never has to touch the ball to impact a game.

Waddle has the "change the game in one play" speed that Ruggs, Hill, and maybe a handful of others have, but he has the route running and release game to also contribute short/intermediate catches from day 1 in the NFL.

I love Waddle, he is an amazing player and is arguably right there with Smith and could be ahead of him if he did not get hurt.  And yes Ruggs is not a finish product but again he was drafted over Justin Jefferson because he was considered the better athlete, same with Reagor and how has that worked out?  Nothing is done but Jefferson might be in the freaking Pro bowl and is having a history rookie season at WR, think that is just luck?  So being a great athlete is not all that matters when playing wide receiver.  Do not draft DeVonta Smith because you think he is average athletically and he will competitively beat up and out work the receiver you picked over him.

 

 

10 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

He's probably the "cleanest" of the WR prospects, but Chase is a better prospect.

Yes DeVonta Smith is a clean prospect and runs great routes.  But just calling him a tactician of the position is an insult to him as a competitor.  After what he has done this year, no freaking way I take Chase over him.  DeVonta Smith will out compete and out work any receiver he is up against in the 2021 draft.   I have no doubt about that.  Look at what he did against LSU and most of that fire he brought was because he knew he was going up against Stingley the hyped corner on LSU.  And he dominated him every which way and made him look pretty damn average more than once.  Had 8 catches, 231 yards and 3 TDs and most of that was before half time I believe.  It was not a coincidence who he did that against, the best game he has had this season.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

I love Waddle, he is an amazing player and is arguably right there with Smith and could be ahead of him if he did not get hurt.  And yes Ruggs is not a finish product but again he was drafted over Justin Jefferson because he was considered the better athlete, same with Reagor and how has that worked out?  Nothing is done but Jefferson might be in the freaking Pro bowl and is having a history rookie season at WR, think that is just luck?  So being a great athlete is not all that matters when playing wide receiver.  Do not draft DeVonta Smith because you think he is average athletically and he will competitively beat up and out work the receiver you picked over him.

Yes DeVonta Smith is a clean prospect and runs great routes.  But just calling him a tactician of the position is an insult to him as a competitor.  After what he has done this year, no freaking way I take Chase over him.  DeVonta Smith will out compete and out work any receiver he is up against in the 2021 draft.   I have no doubt about that.  Look at what he did against LSU and most of that fire he brought was because he knew he was going up against Stingley the hyped corner on LSU.  And he dominated him every which way and made him look pretty damn average more than once.  Had 8 catches, 231 yards and 3 TDs and most of that was before half time I believe.  It was not a coincidence who he did that against, the best game he has had this season.

 

 

I don't know why you've been this vocal for him. He is a technician and can run, jump, etc.

I just don't see his upside as high as guys who also have superior athletic ability to him.

Floor and upside matter when evaluating prospects.

And you're incorrect.

Ruggs was not drafted higher than Jefferson because he's a better athlete (super subjective). He was drafted first because he has one of a kind vertical speed and speed with the ball in his hands that 1 guy in the league right now can match. His purpose was to open up the field and prevent Darren Waller from being bracketed. He has done that marvelously.

I don't want to say that "stats are for losers" because on its own that's a poor argument. 

But you're failing to see Ruggs impact if you just look at a stat sheet. Ruggs has worked out great, even if the numbers haven't been there.

The Raiders have easily one of the most dangerous offenses in the league right now and Ruggs is a big reason why. Even though he's only a fraction of what he can be.

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4 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Look at what he did against LSU and most of that fire he brought was because he knew he was going up against Stingley the hyped corner on LSU.  And he dominated him every which way and made him look pretty damn average more than once.  Had 8 catches, 231 yards and 3 TDs and most of that was before half time I believe.  It was not a coincidence who he did that against, the best game he has had this season.

He didn't face Stingley for most of the game. He made the incredible TD grab against him. But the vast majority of his production came against other players. If we're talking big time competition, I refer you back to Ja'Marr Chase relentlessly torching A.J. Terrell (who went in the first round despite that game) in the National Championship. IMO, Devonta is like Torry Holt. Chase is like NYG OBJ.

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7 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I don't know why you've been this vocal for him. He is a technician and can run, jump, etc.

I just don't see his upside as high as guys who also have superior athletic ability to him.

Floor and upside matter when evaluating prospects.

And you're incorrect.

Ruggs was not drafted higher than Jefferson because he's a better athlete (super subjective). He was drafted first because he has one of a kind vertical speed and speed with the ball in his hands that 1 guy in the league right now can match. His purpose was to open up the field and prevent Darren Waller from being bracketed. He has done that marvelously.

I don't want to say that "stats are for losers" because on its own that's a poor argument. 

But you're failing to see Ruggs impact if you just look at a stat sheet. Ruggs has worked out great, even if the numbers haven't been there.

The Raiders have easily one of the most dangerous offenses in the league right now and Ruggs is a big reason why. Even though he's only a fraction of what he can be.

This is over the last 6 years the fastest 40 times at the combine from the wide receiver position.  

 

John Ross 4.22
Henry Ruggs 4.27
JJ Nelson 4.28
Curtis Samuel 4.31
Will Fuller 4.32
Phillip Dorsett 4.33
Parris Campbell 4.31
Andy Isabella 4.31
Mecole Hardman 4.33
DK Metcalf 4.33
DJ Chark 4.34
Quez Watkins 4.35
Chris Conley 4.35
Kevin White 4.35
Marquez Valdes-Scantling 4.37
Denzel Mims 4.38
Darnell Mooney 4.38
Devin Duvernay 4.39
Kolby Listenbee 4.39

 

DK Metcalf has been great and was way under drafted, no doubt, but only other one on the list that has been consistently good is Will Fuller all the rest have been pretty up and down or are straight not in the league anymore basically.  Not a great list I would say honestly but sure some just started their careers.

 

Yes it is important to have a deep threat in the offense that can take coverage and make defenses respect the big play and back off.  But it is not everything and yes production does matters, Waller gets catches because of his size and athletic ability himself, sure it helps having a fast receiver on the outside but he can get catches in Minnesota just the same and they do not have any super fast receivers, want to trade Rudolph for Waller I will do that all day, see how much Waller struggles because he would absolutely not.  Fast guys are great to have but the few you have as examples (Hill and Metcalf) are the best in the game currently and there are not many of them around honestly and both play for arguably top 3 level QBs in the NFL.  

 

Underrate DeVonta Smith, that will be nothing new, do not be impressed with how thin he is, it does not matter in the end the kid can play and has played better than any receiver who has played college football this year.  Why has he not struggled since Waddle went out?  Metchie and Bolden are ok but nothing great at receiver, they have weapons yes but fact is the kid can get open consistently and has improved each and ever year, give me that all day.  

 

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5 hours ago, jrry32 said:

He didn't face Stingley for most of the game. He made the incredible TD grab against him. But the vast majority of his production came against other players. If we're talking big time competition, I refer you back to Ja'Marr Chase relentlessly torching A.J. Terrell (who went in the first round despite that game) in the National Championship. IMO, Devonta is like Torry Holt. Chase is like NYG OBJ.

Stingley honestly has been a pretty big disappointment this year.  Has not made nearly the amount of plays and has not looked as impactful as last year, then again that LSU defense sucks but arguably it did last year as well but they did have much more talent.

Sure Smith was not guarded by Stingley all the time but he did get beat for more than one TD.  And yes I blame Stingley just as much as the other corner when they switched the route off the line of scrimmage and crossed, it was not picked up, that was Stingley's fault and the other corners fault.  Ricks has been good for them also but those other corners stink on LSU and the safeties are not much better.  Arguably Jabril Cox has been the most impressive guy in coverage for them at times and he is a linebacker, he has done some great things against some good tight ends this year.

Still expected way more out of Stingley this year no doubt about it.  

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13 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Yes DeVonta Smith is a clean prospect and runs great routes.  But just calling him a tactician of the position is an insult to him as a competitor.  After what he has done this year, no freaking way I take Chase over him.  DeVonta Smith will out compete and out work any receiver he is up against in the 2021 draft.   I have no doubt about that.  Look at what he did against LSU and most of that fire he brought was because he knew he was going up against Stingley the hyped corner on LSU.  And he dominated him every which way and made him look pretty damn average more than once.  Had 8 catches, 231 yards and 3 TDs and most of that was before half time I believe.  It was not a coincidence who he did that against, the best game he has had this season.

I've never really called Smith a tactician.  He's tremendously gifted in the finer things of playing WR, but you don't see that elite factor that Chase has shown.  IF Chase had played this year, you wouldn't be making this argument.  This is shiny new toy syndrome all over again.

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Give me the best 2nd round grade WRs because that's seems to be the golden area where the Packers nail their WR picks. I don't necessarily think they'll take one but we all know they won't spend a 1 on a WR. Trade back into the 2nd and take one ala Jordy Nelson or just stand pat and take one ala Davante Adams. 

I think Rondale Moore would be absurdly dangerous in the Packers offense but he's not likely to be around at the Packers 1st rounder, let alone after. Rashod Bateman seems to be an ideal fit with the current team/scheme. We might need a "take the top off the defense" type if we sour on MVS as well and Tylan Wallace is arguably the best deep ball guy in this draft. Chris Olave is a tactician at WR that Rodgers would probably love. 

Need more names that would fit what we do. @CWood21 would probably know better than most about how our offense runs but @jrry32 could also probably chip in here.

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Lol have you seen the ppg difference when Ruggs plays and doesn’t? It’s night and day. He has made that whole offense better because of the threat he is. What he does for that offense is clearly being overlooked here. Jefferson could probably do that as well in Vegas but let’s not call Ruggs the wrong choice yet.

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Just now, Scalamania said:

I absolutely love Olave in the second round for the Eagles, everything he does is just so smooth. Very underrated right now, IMO. 

Wouldn't surprise me if he's this class's McLaurin. I know, I know, they both went to Ohio State and are both behind more physically gifted WRs in their classes but both are flat out studs. I'm just hoping the Packers don't make the same mistake they did passing on McLaurin in '19 if Olave is on the board when they pick in the 2nd.

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5 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I've never really called Smith a tactician.  He's tremendously gifted in the finer things of playing WR, but you don't see that elite factor that Chase has shown.  IF Chase had played this year, you wouldn't be making this argument.  This is shiny new toy syndrome all over again.

You are incorrect.  

Currently DeVonta Smith leads the nation in receiving yards 1305 and touchdowns with 15 through only 9 games.

 

Ja'Marr Chase through 14 games had 1780 yards, 20 TDs.  DeVonta Smith will easily pass that if he plays 14 games which he will not be able to, yet he still could pass those numbers.  By the way Chase played with better talent around him last year, especially with Waddle only playing 4 out of those 9 games for Bama, and a better QB.  

 

Chase was great last season, but DeVonta Smith this year has done greater things than Chase did the year previous.  And like I said, I have zero doubt DeVonta is a better worker and a great competitor and plays the game with more passion and desire.  Will see how is better in the end, but give me DeVonta Smith over Chase all freaking day.  By the way, no way does Chase have OBJ type of athletic ability, no way Chase runs a 4.31 40 either.  Great player but yeah it is a little bit of what have you done lately, DeVonta Smith is only playing out of his mind this year and Chase is sitting at home.  So yeah kind of matters in ones current opinion a bit

 

4 hours ago, Counselor said:

Lol have you seen the ppg difference when Ruggs plays and doesn’t? It’s night and day. He has made that whole offense better because of the threat he is. What he does for that offense is clearly being overlooked here. Jefferson could probably do that as well in Vegas but let’s not call Ruggs the wrong choice yet.

He is not the wrong choice, I like him as a player and a prospect.  But if all one looks at is how fast you run the  40, that is kind of foolish and the list I showed before shows that point exactly.  The 40 time is important, it is not the be all and end all.  And sadly for Ruggs, he will get hurt again and again and again, because honestly he has his entire career, so that is also another massive negative.   So potentially having historically good numbers as a rookie wide receiver means nothing?  People talk off how great Justin Jefferson has been as if it is just luck thing or some random happenstance, which it is not.   And again it helps show your lack of a 4.3 40 time does not mean that much if you can do the other things well as a wide receiver, and as if 4.43 is some awful 40 number which it is not, but no he did not impress physically like some others did, so what.  

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4 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

You are incorrect.  

Currently DeVonta Smith leads the nation in receiving yards 1305 and touchdowns with 15 through only 9 games.

 

Ja'Marr Chase through 14 games had 1780 yards, 20 TDs.  DeVonta Smith will easily pass that if he plays 14 games which he will not be able to, yet he still could pass those numbers.  By the way Chase played with better talent around him last year, especially with Waddle only playing 4 out of those 9 games for Bama, and a better QB.  

 

Chase was great last season, but DeVonta Smith this year has done greater things than Chase did the year previous.  And like I said, I have zero doubt DeVonta is a better worker and a great competitor and plays the game with more passion and desire.  Will see how is better in the end, but give me DeVonta Smith over Chase all freaking day.  By the way, no way does Chase have OBJ type of athletic ability, no way Chase runs a 4.31 40 either.  Great player but yeah it is a little bit of what have you done lately, DeVonta Smith is only playing out of his mind this year and Chase is sitting at home.  So yeah kind of matters in ones current opinion a bit

 

He is not the wrong choice, I like him as a player and a prospect.  But if all one looks at is how fast you run the  40, that is kind of foolish and the list I showed before shows that point exactly.  The 40 time is important, it is not the be all and end all.  And sadly for Ruggs, he will get hurt again and again and again, because honestly he has his entire career, so that is also another massive negative.   So potentially having historically good numbers as a rookie wide receiver means nothing?  People talk off how great Justin Jefferson has been as if it is just luck thing or some random happenstance, which it is not.   And again it helps show your lack of a 4.3 40 time does not mean that much if you can do the other things well as a wide receiver, and as if 4.43 is some awful 40 number which it is not, but no he did not impress physically like some others did, so what.  

Never said any of that about Jet. But Ruggs makes the Raiders offense better without a doubt.

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