Official 2021 WR Thread

[Jeezla]

Warren Jackson could be the next Waller

[Jeezla]

10 minutes ago, goldfishwars said:

Oh Shi is way more polished, but Tutu is running at a different speed to everyone else 

Shi ain't slow though, and built to take more tackles than Tutu. Tutu looks like an even skinnier Hamler. Going to have as many ir stints as he does big plays.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Jeezla

[Scoundrel]

So I see the argument about Mac Jones having receivers schemed open so he doesn’t have to make many tough reads or throws into coverage. So with that being said does DeVonta Smith benefit from being schemed open more than most receivers? Or is he just that great at always getting open? Or a little mix of both? 

[jrry32]

53 minutes ago, Counselor said:

So I see the argument about Mac Jones having receivers schemed open so he doesn’t have to make many tough reads or throws into coverage. So with that being said does DeVonta Smith benefit from being schemed open more than most receivers? Or is he just that great at always getting open? Or a little mix of both? 

Mix of both.

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, Counselor said:

So I see the argument about Mac Jones having receivers schemed open so he doesn’t have to make many tough reads or throws into coverage. So with that being said does DeVonta Smith benefit from being schemed open more than most receivers? Or is he just that great at always getting open? Or a little mix of both? 

Schemed open?  

DeVonta Smith fights to get the football more than any receiver in the up coming draft, he rarely lets the ball come into his body, he comes back to the ball when needed and makes some outstanding hands catches regardless of who is around him or how difficult the catch is.  He will out compete other receivers and is very aggressive when the ball is in the air.  The kid has juice and unless he just stops improving, he should be even better in the NFL.  He works, he fights, he competes. Schemed open?  Just because a team has an advanced passing game does not mean the players running it are any less talented, Joe Burrow had guys schemed open all season last year, think that matters in terms of how good Justin Jefferson is now or how well Burrow did?   

 

4 hours ago, Jeezla said:

Warren Jackson could be the next Waller

I have never seen him play, might have to check him out, seems a little thin compared to Waller who was more wide body it seemed.  Then again Waller is a TE that is split out wide.  

 

Kenny Yeboah is one who could be a Waller type, had a great season and is a huge kid.  Lesser known guy also is Cary Angeline who is a big freaking do and can be a big time matchup problem.  Seth Green did not get as much action as he should have at TE/WR but he could be something if he gets with the right system and gets on a practice squad, is a impressive athlete.

[Scoundrel]

29 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Schemed open?  

DeVonta Smith fights to get the football more than any receiver in the up coming draft, he rarely lets the ball come into his body, he comes back to the ball when needed and makes some outstanding hands catches regardless of who is around him or how difficult the catch is.  He will out compete other receivers and is very aggressive when the ball is in the air.  The kid has juice and unless he just stops improving, he should be even better in the NFL.  He works, he fights, he competes. Schemed open?  Just because a team has an advanced passing game does not mean the players running it are any less talented, Joe Burrow had guys schemed open all season last year, think that matters in terms of how good Justin Jefferson is now or how well Burrow did?   

 

I have never seen him play, might have to check him out, seems a little thin compared to Waller who was more wide body it seemed.  Then again Waller is a TE that is split out wide.  

 

Kenny Yeboah is one who could be a Waller type, had a great season and is a huge kid.  Lesser known guy also is Cary Angeline who is a big freaking do and can be a big time matchup problem.  Seth Green did not get as much action as he should have at TE/WR but he could be something if he gets with the right system and gets on a practice squad, is a impressive athlete.

I posed the question because I keep hearing this as an excuse for good to great play of certain QBs including Mac Jones so I want to see how one sided this is or not. Not that I agree with it. 

[BrownLeader]

On 12/21/2020 at 3:11 PM, Jeezla said:

Warren Jackson could be the next Waller

..if we're talking sleeper TE's

https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=30558432

[hburn]

So where does everyone put Justyn Ross? Similar situation to DK Metcalf where he’s a top receiver in the class but a questionable neck injury drops him or is this neck injury much worse?

[CWood21]

Chris Olave is going to be a star in the NFL if he can consistently beat press coveage.

[Scoundrel]

36 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Chris Olave is going to be a star in the NFL if he can consistently beat press coveage.

Tell me more

[jrry32]

18 hours ago, hburn said:

So where does everyone put Justyn Ross? Similar situation to DK Metcalf where he’s a top receiver in the class but a questionable neck injury drops him or is this neck injury much worse?

Assuming the injury doesn't have long-term repercussions, I can't see him falling out of him Round 2. Had he been healthy this year, I think he goes Round 1. But it's a spinal injury, so who knows.

[diamondbull424]

On 12/21/2020 at 11:43 AM, RavensTillIDie said:

Just curious, why the lack of love for Rashon Bateman in this thread? Bit enamored at the moment, and I haven't looked too much into the other prospects, but he looks like the best WR in this draft to me.

I’ll bump this for you. Perhaps people missed it.

 

Personally I like him, but I definitely think he’s clearly behind Smith and Chase. Here’s how I see the top WRs, personally:

The Case for Smith
Smith’s got superior speed, route running, length, and hands with similar run vision with the ball in their hands. Obviously Bateman is a better physical ‘specimen’ then Smith to finish runs at the NFL level however. Smith takes less false steps than Bateman and is thus superior with his in breaking routes, getting superior separation. With out breaking routes, it’s literally no contest here. Both track the ball well, but I find Smith to be even better at highpointing the football than Bateman. Smith also offers legitimate deep threat ability with those long strides, he’s a smooth criminal. The only true L that I’m giving Smith is his route strength. Between his rail thin frame and his long strides, in the rare occasions where his route releases aren’t creating quick separation, it’s easier to disrupt him with savvy/physical hand and body placement. But I find such reps very rare. I’m more concerned about Smith’s durability with his frame than I am anything else. But on the field, I don’t see any argument for Bateman above Smith.

The Case for Chase
With Bateman and Chase, they’re both similar physical specimen trading additional length for a stronger frame. I’ve been watching a lot more of JaMarr Chase because I personally haven’t been enamored with him and was trying to understand what people loved about him.. and I’ve finally done that. He does three things in particular that will instantly translate to the NFL level (more, but I’m talking his most unique traits) and that’s 1) Hand Fighting- This is his strongest trait, whether its press man and his ability to defeat such with hands quickly to keep his frame free for his release, is elite as a prospect. Combine that with his hand fighting ability throughout the route and at the top of the route, he’s constantly in a position to create just enough real estate via this trait. This trait is how DeAndre Hopkins consistently finds ways to win in the NFL, it’s also a trait that a Denzel Mims displayed as a draft prospect coming out. 2) He presents his hands late- He’s very good at knowing when to move his hands in position to make the catch. Some guys move their hands up too early and it allows the DB to get their head around and/or time a punch out for an incompletion, whereas Chase remains extremely patient and presents his hands at the exact moment he needs to in order to ensure the ball falls into his grasp; this presents him a unique advantage in another way for him to win. 3) His RAC ability- He’s tough to bring down in the open field like a Juju Smith-Schuster in that capacity, however I think Chase might be an underrated athlete as I’ve seen him outrun some angles from defenders that a 4.5 guy wouldn’t be able to do... and I’ve seen a few people saying he’s an average athlete, likely because he doesn’t win his routes with speed, but rather with hand fighting. It honestly wouldn’t shock me (even if I don’t expect it, probably a 4.43 guy) if he runs in the high 4.3’s based on what I’m seeing... but I digress, this speed helps him tremendously when he enters the open field, he seems to hit another gear that he doesn’t seem to necessarily display within his routes. If Chase is able to translate more of his speed within his routes to win with speed releases as well as hand fighting, he could take his game to another level... and considering his 99th percentile breakout age, there’s little reason to doubt he should develop in that area of his game. Also there are other elements that Chase does well like tracking the football and highpointing the ball, but I think the three aforementioned things are his most unique traits.

The Case for Ross
Beyond that, you look at this receiver class and I think a Justyn Ross does similar things well as Bateman, but with easily superior length. Similar speed, fluidity, and route releases from the two (similar enough anyway). Where Ross separates to me is in his route running and competition. I see similar route running with their in-breaking route concepts, but Ross definitely seems comfortably better than Bateman in out breaking routes from what I’ve seen. On the competition side, Ross has more reps/games going against top competition, thus its a bit easier to see NFL level reps, though you can only play who is on your schedule (unless you’re BYU and Coastal Carolina 😂), so I don’t dock Bateman much for this. I will give a slight edge to Bateman in the hands department however. That said, Justyn Ross still has to be cleared to play football. If he is cleared by one of the leading medical specialists in his field, then I think that’s as good a sign as any that Ross is ready to go. If he is ready, he’s better than Bateman IMO for the above reasons.

The Case for Waddle
Jaylen Waddle is sort of a hybrid between Ruggs and Jeudy. I don’t see quite the same agility (or perhaps Jeudy just had a superior move set) as Jeudy in the open field, but he’s got better speed and contact balance; similar hands to Jeudy. So Waddle’s athleticism presents him superior upside to Bateman. Both WRs are going to thrive on in breaking routes at the next level, but Waddle is more dangerous because of his game breaking speed. For Bateman, he’s easily got superior length, strength, and hands; however both have a similar high point ability and toughness. Considering Waddle is more dangerous at what Bateman specializes in (even if he’s not ‘better’ per se) while also provides superior deep threat ability and he’s got a case above Bateman. I think someone could make a compelling argument for either Waddle or Bateman being the superior WR though and I don’t think either would be wrong.

Bateman reminds me of Michael Crabtree and Michael Gallup as prospects coming into the league. Similar strengths and body structures, those would probably be my comps for him. I see a High tier #2 WR more than I see a legitimate #1 WR, which I think the other 4 guys ahead of him have a quality chance of becoming.

 

... that all being said, I’d be interested in what other people have to say regarding these players.

Edited December 25, 2020 by diamondbull424

[Hawkeyejam]

https://mobile.twitter.com/_ihmirr_/status/1342134724769284096/photo/1

 

Ihmir Smith-Marsette skipping CoVid year. Speedy Iowa WR. Don't judge this years numbers .. terrible QB play... One of those 3rd-5th rd guys that could become something

[Scoundrel]

6 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

I’ll bump this for you. Perhaps people missed it.

 

Personally I like him, but I definitely think he’s clearly behind Smith and Chase. Here’s how I see the top WRs, personally:

The Case for Smith
Smith’s got superior speed, route running, length, and hands with similar run vision with the ball in their hands. Obviously Bateman is a better physical ‘specimen’ then Smith to finish runs at the NFL level however. Smith takes less false steps than Bateman and is thus superior with his in breaking routes, getting superior separation. With out breaking routes, it’s literally no contest here. Both track the ball well, but I find Smith to be even better at highpointing the football than Bateman. Smith also offers legitimate deep threat ability with those long strides, he’s a smooth criminal. The only true L that I’m giving Smith is his route strength. Between his rail thin frame and his long strides, in the rare occasions where his route releases aren’t creating quick separation, it’s easier to disrupt him with savvy/physical hand and body placement. But I find such reps very rare. I’m more concerned about Smith’s durability with his frame than I am anything else. But on the field, I don’t see any argument for Bateman above Smith.

The Case for Chase
With Bateman and Chase, they’re both similar physical specimen trading additional length for a stronger frame. I’ve been watching a lot more of JaMarr Chase because I personally haven’t been enamored with him and was trying to understand what people loved about him.. and I’ve finally done that. He does three things in particular that will instantly translate to the NFL level (more, but I’m talking his most unique traits) and that’s 1) Hand Fighting- This is his strongest trait, whether its press man and his ability to defeat such with hands quickly to keep his frame free for his release, is elite as a prospect. Combine that with his hand fighting ability throughout the route and at the top of the route, he’s constantly in a position to create just enough real estate via this trait. This trait is how DeAndre Hopkins consistently finds ways to win in the NFL, it’s also a trait that a Denzel Mims displayed as a draft prospect coming out. 2) He presents his hands late- He’s very good at knowing when to move his hands in position to make the catch. Some guys move their hands up too early and it allows the DB to get their head around and/or time a punch out for an incompletion, whereas Chase remains extremely patient and presents his hands at the exact moment he needs to in order to ensure the ball falls into his grasp; this presents him a unique advantage in another way for him to win. 3) His RAC ability- He’s tough to bring down in the open field like a Juju Smith-Schuster in that capacity, however I think Chase might be an underrated athlete as I’ve seen him outrun some angles from defenders that a 4.5 guy wouldn’t be able to do... and I’ve seen a few people saying he’s an average athlete, likely because he doesn’t win his routes with speed, but rather with hand fighting. It honestly wouldn’t shock me (even if I don’t expect it, probably a 4.43 guy) if he runs in the high 4.3’s based on what I’m seeing... but I digress, this speed helps him tremendously when he enters the open field, he seems to hit another gear that he doesn’t seem to necessarily display within his routes. If Chase is able to translate more of his speed within his routes to win with speed releases as well as hand fighting, he could take his game to another level... and considering his 99th percentile breakout age, there’s little reason to doubt he should develop in that area of his game. Also there are other elements that Chase does well like tracking the football and highpointing the ball, but I think the three aforementioned things are his most unique traits.

The Case for Ross
Beyond that, you look at this receiver class and I think a Justyn Ross does similar things well as Bateman, but with easily superior length. Similar speed, fluidity, and route releases from the two (similar enough anyway). Where Ross separates to me is in his route running and competition. I see similar route running with their in-breaking route concepts, but Ross definitely seems comfortably better than Bateman in out breaking routes from what I’ve seen. On the competition side, Ross has more reps/games going against top competition, thus its a bit easier to see NFL level reps, though you can only play who is on your schedule (unless you’re BYU and Coastal Carolina 😂), so I don’t dock Bateman much for this. I will give a slight edge to Bateman in the hands department however. That said, Justyn Ross still has to be cleared to play football. If he is cleared by one of the leading medical specialists in his field, then I think that’s as good a sign as any that Ross is ready to go. If he is ready, he’s better than Bateman IMO for the above reasons.

The Case for Waddle
Jaylen Waddle is sort of a hybrid between Ruggs and Jeudy. I don’t see quite the same agility (or perhaps Jeudy just had a superior move set) as Jeudy in the open field, but he’s got better speed and contact balance; similar hands to Jeudy. So Waddle’s athleticism presents him superior upside to Bateman. Both WRs are going to thrive on in breaking routes at the next level, but Waddle is more dangerous because of his game breaking speed. For Bateman, he’s easily got superior length, strength, and hands; however both have a similar high point ability and toughness. Considering Waddle is more dangerous at what Bateman specializes in (even if he’s not ‘better’ per se) while also provides superior deep threat ability and he’s got a case above Bateman. I think someone could make a compelling argument for either Waddle or Bateman being the superior WR though and I don’t think either would be wrong.

Bateman reminds me of Michael Crabtree and Michael Gallup as prospects coming into the league. Similar strengths and body structures, those would probably be my comps for him. I see a High tier #2 WR more than I see a legitimate #1 WR, which I think the other 4 guys ahead of him have a quality chance of becoming.

 

... that all being said, I’d be interested in what other people have to say regarding these players.

So what is your order? Smith over Chase?

[diamondbull424]

On 12/25/2020 at 1:06 PM, Counselor said:

So what is your order? Smith over Chase?

I do have him above Chase. But I grade with a slant for my team. As a Ravens fan of the two WRs, Smith is going to be the superior option for the Ravens IMO for a couple reasons:
1. Track Team- The idea (as former Ravens scout Daniel Jeremiah predicted) was to seemingly build a track team around Lamar to force teams to back away for additional running room (hence Hollywood Brown), I don’t necessarily expect the Ravens to change that philosophy if they don’t have to. Smith has the speed within his routes that would be a superior fit for that idea.
2. Catch Radius/Separation- Lamar Jackson has struggled with ball placement/accuracy on occasions, so I think pairing him with Smith would be the better fit. Smith has a better catch radius over Chase because of his length; he’s 6’1” but he appears to have a Rajon Rondo-esq frame, it wouldn’t shock me if he measured in with a 6’8” or 6’9” wingspan. Combine that with his agility and vertical ability and his catch radius is astounding. This elite trait along with Smith’s near elite route release/running skills (elite in terms of WR prospects) would provide wider targeting windows and a huge catch radius that serves to nullify Lamar’s accuracy weakness.
3. Run Blocking- DeVonta Smith, while 30 lbs lighter than Chase is BY FAR the superior run blocker. Chase doesn’t even look interested or seem to try. Whereas the Alabama WRs actually compete, not for who makes the most plays in the passing game, but rather who can make the best blocks in the game... if that’s not a fit for the Ravens offense, than I don’t know what is.
4. Development- While he didn’t breakout quite like Chase, as a sophomore Smith went a ridiculous 42/42 in targets to catches (yes a 100% catch rate), he caught a GWTD as a sophomore in OT, and he’s delivered as the go-to receiver over the rest of that stacked Alabama WR room for three separate QBs, all with completely different QBing styles. For a Ravens team that struggles to develop WR talent, Smith has the higher floor above Chase IMO and I’ll take that surety above Chase’ additional potential.

But again, this is Ravens slanted, for other teams, I think Chase above Smith could certainly make sense, it’s close enough, that tie should in most cases go to Chase’ age.

 

 

In terms of my WR rankings:
1. DeVonta Smith
2. JaMarr Chase
3. Justyn Ross???

3. Rondale Moore
4. Rashod Bateman
5. Jaylen Waddle
- Very very close with these three. Could change my mind with these three at any point in the process. I’m not particularly a fan of either Moore or Waddle’s route running, they’re separating with god given ability and not so much with technique. However you can’t teach Moore’s lower body strength and speed combination. Both Moore and Waddle possess half the qualities of Steve Smith, Moore in his escapability and Waddle with his highpoint ability. With Lamar I value Waddle’s highpoint ability more, but Moore is also 2 years younger and ties go to age. It also wouldn’t be tied (for me) if durability wasn’t as big a concern for Moore as it is.

6. Terrace Marshall
7. Kadarius Toney
8. Tylan Wallace
- I actually like Wallace the most of these guys, but I’m also most fearful of Wallace’s durability. Could be irrational fear, but since I don’t know the medical information, I push the other guys on the same level, if not slightly ahead.

9. Elijah Moore
10. Amon-Ra St. Brown

Edited December 26, 2020 by diamondbull424
Added an extra WR just in case Ross doesn’t declare or isn’t cleared for football by his doctors.