Eagles Weak 14: Just Make It Stop

[Daimonas]

1 minute ago, Jroc04 said:

He has a better average?

6 vs miles' 8

 

Regardless, after the literal physical destruction that has happened to your previous QB, why would you have near 20 carries for your current promising qb when you have a rb already averaging 8

[Jroc04]

1 minute ago, Daimonas said:

6 vs miles' 8

 

Regardless, after the literal physical destruction that has happened to your previous QB, why would you have near 20 carries for your current promising qb when you have a rb already averaging 8

I agree with you. 
 

But I’m not going to pretend like Miles was killing them. He had one huge run. 13 carries for 33 yards otherwise. Hurts killed them with his legs. That’s just how the game dictated. They didn’t sack him once. That’s impressive for us with how bad we’ve been. OL was better but it was more Jalen escaping when he needed to at will. 

[ninjapirate]

4 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

I agree with you. 
 

But I’m not going to pretend like Miles was killing them. He had one huge run. 13 carries for 33 yards otherwise. Hurts killed them with his legs. That’s just how the game dictated. They didn’t sack him once. That’s impressive for us with how bad we’ve been. OL was better but it was more Jalen escaping when he needed to at will. 

it was also so nice seeing your QB roll out and just throw it away live to play another down.

[Jroc04]

Just now, ninjapirate said:

it was also so nice seeing your QB roll out and just throw it away live to play another down.

Yep. He was 17/30 but only 1(?) looked like it could have been picked off. 

[SweetFancyMoses]

Thank you and the Chargers. Back in business at #4

[Broadway Joe]

I haven’t been less happy about a win in don’t know how long.

[Broadway Joe]

8 minutes ago, ninjapirate said:

it was also so nice seeing your QB roll out and just throw it away live to play another down.

And when he did people hate it still. 

[Wentz you dog you]

17 minutes ago, ninjapirate said:

it was also so nice seeing your QB roll out and just throw it away live to play another down.

Yep - This was one of my main takeaways as well... Was actually very refreshing to watch! Hurts can get himself out of trouble extremely well & then is smart enough to live for another down. That's the kind of play you need to have from your QB especially with the poor surrounding cast. I actually definitely think this team has more wins with Hurts at QB. I just still believe in Wentz for the future but Hurts deserves the opportunity to finish the season & I am thoroughly impressed with his play so far.

[EaglesPeteC]

Good first start for Hurts. We’ll see what he can do over after a week of tape 

[BLick12]

I saw some people downplaying his athleticism which is crazy to me. Hurts is a lot more athletic than Wentz, which helps behind this line and with receivers that don’t consistently get open. But he also showed he’s not afraid to get it out, unlike Carson. You don’t see Hurts double and triple hitching and second guessing himself. He might get jumped a few times this season, but hopefully that’s an area where he can progress and get better at dissecting the defense. Also, there’s no doubt that his legs open things up on the read option better, as he’s a real threat to keep it and win the edge. 
 

I’m cautiously optimistic about him. It’s going to be challenging for him to get us out of deficits, but with the way the defense has been playing lately, he’s a far better option than Wentz right now. 

[Daimonas]

8 hours ago, Jroc04 said:

I agree with you. 
 

But I’m not going to pretend like Miles was killing them. He had one huge run. 13 carries for 33 yards otherwise. Hurts killed them with his legs. That’s just how the game dictated. They didn’t sack him once. That’s impressive for us with how bad we’ve been. OL was better but it was more Jalen escaping when he needed to at will. 

I loathe this take. If you take away all the touchdowns mahomes has he only has interceptions. A big run doesn't invalidate what he did.

[Jroc04]

20 minutes ago, Daimonas said:

I loathe this take. If you take away all the touchdowns mahomes has he only has interceptions. A big run doesn't invalidate what he did.

Not trying to take it away from him. But an effective run game is one that is consistently getting 5, 8, 10 yard gashes. One monster run on a busted play where a couple guys make big mistakes isn’t the same as a Derrick Henry type game where he’s just killing you drive to drive. Miles had a decent game. My point was I could see why Doug wasn’t force feeding him the ball. He was mostly ineffective. At the same time you can’t ignore his home run potential. He was at 2.5 yards a carry outside of one play. Hurts did much more consistent damage with his legs. The run game was extremely effective because of the zone reads. And it was in part because the Saints had to respect Miles so Hurts could keep it. It was a joint effort. Hurts wouldn’t have been so effective without Miles. It’s hand in hand. If that was your point, I wouldnt have said anything. But I can’t fault Doug on that one. I think when you call the option plays, you forgo the weapon you’re using and worry more or less about the concerted run game effort. Who really cares who’s getting it, you know. 

[RandyMossIsBoss]

8 hours ago, BLick12 said:

I saw some people downplaying his athleticism which is crazy to me. Hurts is a lot more athletic than Wentz, which helps behind this line and with receivers that don’t consistently get open. But he also showed he’s not afraid to get it out, unlike Carson. You don’t see Hurts double and triple hitching and second guessing himself. He might get jumped a few times this season, but hopefully that’s an area where he can progress and get better at dissecting the defense. Also, there’s no doubt that his legs open things up on the read option better, as he’s a real threat to keep it and win the edge.  

He's probably top 5 athlete among starting QBs. Lamar and Kyler have him beat no doubt, but after that? Cam and Allen are all I can think of. I know Jones has some eye popping numbers but that doofus is 1 dimensional athlete w/ track speed.

 

8 hours ago, BLick12 said:

I’m cautiously optimistic about him. It’s going to be challenging for him to get us out of deficits, but with the way the defense has been playing lately, he’s a far better option than Wentz right now. 

We saw Foles throw 28 TDs-2 INTs and not be good. We then saw him win a SB MVP, and then all over again he was not good.

We saw Wentz have an MVP season, followed by 2 years of good play, and not be good.

Think I'm gonna need about 5-6 pro bowls from Hurts before I feel comfortable calling him good. Even then I'm sure as a fan I'll forever be traumatized by Wentz's historic fall-off and never feel truly comfortable calling my QB good, I'll just stick with "he played good"... "he is playing good in the present."

Edited December 14, 2020 by RandyMossIsBoss

[Daimonas]

1 hour ago, Jroc04 said:

Not trying to take it away from him. But an effective run game is one that is consistently getting 5, 8, 10 yard gashes. One monster run on a busted play where a couple guys make big mistakes isn’t the same as a Derrick Henry type game where he’s just killing you drive to drive. Miles had a decent game. My point was I could see why Doug wasn’t force feeding him the ball. He was mostly ineffective. At the same time you can’t ignore his home run potential. He was at 2.5 yards a carry outside of one play. Hurts did much more consistent damage with his legs. The run game was extremely effective because of the zone reads. And it was in part because the Saints had to respect Miles so Hurts could keep it. It was a joint effort. Hurts wouldn’t have been so effective without Miles. It’s hand in hand. If that was your point, I wouldnt have said anything. But I can’t fault Doug on that one. I think when you call the option plays, you forgo the weapon you’re using and worry more or less about the concerted run game effort. Who really cares who’s getting it, you know. 

I don't disagree with your point, if a hand is hot you keep using it and hurts was definitely effective. My take is that no coach should be willing to give their QB nearly 20 carries in a game, it's begging for disaster. The point of contention in my reply is more that for some backs their production relies on getting that right opportunity after banging themselves against a wall. Derrick Henry doesn't always just gash a team, sometimes he's bottled up like any other back and then you see his 90+ yard runs. CMC is the same. The point is, your RB can't look for those opportunities if he doesn't get the carries. Sanders has shown multiple times this season that he can be stuffed for a couple drives only to break off a big run.

 

Despite his low carries, Sanders got used more and more effectively in this game than he has practically all season, I just never want to see a QB have more carries than a literal coach proclaimed "bellcow" back.  Hurts wasn't Wilson or Murray trying to slide and avoid contact. Whenever Hurts was within the numbers he took a hit. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Daimonas

[Jroc04]

1 hour ago, Daimonas said:

I don't disagree with your point, if a hand is hot you keep using it and hurts was definitely effective. My take is that no coach should be willing to give their QB nearly 20 carries in a game, it's begging for disaster. The point of contention in my reply is more that for some backs their production relies on getting that right opportunity after banging themselves against a wall. Derrick Henry doesn't always just gash a team, sometimes he's bottled up like any other back and then you see his 90+ yard runs. CMC is the same. The point is, your RB can't look for those opportunities if he doesn't get the carries. Sanders has shown multiple times this season that he can be stuffed for a couple drives only to break off a big run.

 

Despite his low carries, Sanders got used more and more effectively in this game than he has practically all season, I just never want to see a QB have more carries than a literal coach proclaimed "bellcow" back.  Hurts wasn't Wilson or Murray trying to slide and avoid contact. Whenever Hurts was within the numbers he took a hit. 

Agreed. 
 

But this is the way for the time being. Until Hurts established himself as a passer then this is how he’s going to be used. If he can find his way to be a Russ or even Allen then thats money. But running QBs can easily turn into RGIII or a splash in the pan like Lamar (so far anyway). To your point, you want him to be dangerous on both terms but a passer primarily. But that’s going to take time. It’ll take a year or so to really see if he can do it. Allen was bottom of the league in completion percentage his first two years. Now he’s near the top and he’s a dangerous runner. It’s just the trend right now. Hell, we seen what Jones can do if you don’t respect him. After the dinosaurs are gone (Brady, Brees, Rodgers), you’re gonna want a QB that can do both. Hurts will rely on his athleticism then hopefully develop his passing game and then hopefully know when to deploy each one at different times. That’s the end goal. But for now,  we’re going to have to watch him make plays with his legs until he figures it out.