Eagles Weak 14: Just Make It Stop

[Eagles23]

Hurts looked like Atlanta Vick. You only get so far with Atlanta Vick

[RandyMossIsBoss]

4 minutes ago, Eagles23 said:

Hurts looked like Atlanta Vick. You only get so far with Atlanta Vick

Atlanta Vick never evolved, and that's why you only got so far with him. This was the debut for Hurts, with what I still believe is a pretty trash offense around him and non-existent deep threats. If in year 2 by midseason, that is if he's even our starter next year, we still aren't trusting him to scan the field and test the middle and have him run 20x a game, then I might get a little concerned, but for now? This is the best way to use him, build his confidence, and move the chains quite frankly because learning to be a pocket passer behind this line? With these weapons? Recipe for disaster.

[Matts4313]

5 hours ago, Jroc04 said:

Not trying to take it away from him. But an effective run game is one that is consistently getting 5, 8, 10 yard gashes. One monster run on a busted play where a couple guys make big mistakes isn’t the same as a Derrick Henry type game where he’s just killing you drive to drive. Miles had a decent game.

Gospel

4 hours ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

He's probably top 5 athlete among starting QBs. Lamar and Kyler have him beat no doubt, but after that? Cam and Allen are all I can think of.

Cam probably not anymore. He is just big. Allen for sure, he is crazy athletic. Trubs is sneaky athletic. Watson, Wilson and Mahomes are both athletic, but they dont run. They use it to enhance their passing.  Tanny is also very athletic, but isnt a runner. 

And thats really what you want. You want Hurts to be an uber athlete that uses it to enhance passing.

4 hours ago, Daimonas said:

My take is that no coach should be willing to give their QB nearly 20 carries in a game, it's begging for disaster.

According to Pederson, he didnt. He called some runs, but the rest of that was Hurts tucking and going.

2 hours ago, Jroc04 said:

But this is the way for the time being. Until Hurts established himself as a passer then this is how he’s going to be used. 

Does it have to be? I am pretty sure it was Murray/Kliff that as a rookie he basically said "I know you can run, but were going to (almost) exclusively use you as a pocket passer until you can develop that. Running is a last resort" - - - that said, he still ran a ton. But it was mostly scrambles. 

54 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

non-existent deep threats. 

Deep threats are a tad overrated. In todays NFL the vast majority of passes are 20 yards or less. Most of the go/post routes are just dummy routes to affect coverage. 

[eagles18]

3 hours ago, Eagles23 said:

Hurts looked like Atlanta Vick. You only get so far with Atlanta Vick

Atlanta Vick had a rocket for an arm. Hurts looks like he has strong of an arm as me and I was a High School QB.. If hurts wasn't fast, we are not winning yesterdays game 

[eagles18]

2 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

6 hours ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

He's probably top 5 athlete among starting QBs. Lamar and Kyler have him beat no doubt, but after that? Cam and Allen are all I can think of.

 

all of those players you mentioned have elite arm strength

[Matts4313]

14 minutes ago, eagles18 said:

all of those players you mentioned have elite arm strength

Go pull up their combines. Look at the film. They are all ultra elite. Hell, Tanny was a damned WR in college. 

And for the record, I didnt say they were all more athletic, just that they are ultra athletes. But it also depends on how you define athlete. Romo's combine numbers arent great, but he had scholarship offers do be a point guard. NBA players have said he would could play.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Matts4313

[Mastercheddaar]

I love how Dougy P finally runs the ball and the offense seems to click better. Also where were the hands team the whole year? Hurts throw these off the mark balls all game and they are catchings touchdowns and toe drag swags. Yet for Wentz they get a case of the concrete hands. 

I'm happy we beat and screwed up the Ain'ts. 2nd place for them! WAH WAH!

Go Birds

MC

Edited December 14, 2020 by Mastercheddaar

[EAGLES3658]

4 hours ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

Atlanta Vick never evolved, and that's why you only got so far with him. This was the debut for Hurts, with what I still believe is a pretty trash offense around him and non-existent deep threats. If in year 2 by midseason, that is if he's even our starter next year, we still aren't trusting him to scan the field and test the middle and have him run 20x a game, then I might get a little concerned, but for now? This is the best way to use him, build his confidence, and move the chains quite frankly because learning to be a pocket passer behind this line? With these weapons? Recipe for disaster.

Isn't this exactly how the Ravens eased Lamar Jackson into the NFL? I think they didn't even let him throw as much as Hurts actually. 

[EAGLES3658]

53 minutes ago, Mastercheddaar said:

I love how Dougy P finally runs the ball and the offense seems to click better. Also where were the hands team the whole year? Hurts throw these off the mark balls all game and they are catchings touchdowns and toe drag swags. Yet for Wentz they get a case of the concrete hands. 

I'm happy we beat and screwed up the Ain'ts. 2nd place for them! WAH WAH!

Go Birds

MC

I don't remember any special catches yesterday?

 

It probably has to do with Hurts putting nice touch on the football which allows WRs to make adjustments before the ball gets there and get in a better position to catch the ball. Wentz throws missiles where the WR has little time to react. If the ball is slightly off target then it makes it a hard ball to catch for the receivers because they have no time to adjust/react. Not to mention, throwing the ball as hard as you can is going to result it a lot more drops than if you put some touch on the football. 

[Matts4313]

6 minutes ago, EAGLES3658 said:

Isn't this exactly how the Ravens eased Lamar Jackson into the NFL? I think they didn't even let him throw as much as Hurts actually. 

Is that a great example? Jackson has regressed greatly this year now that the gimmicks have been taken away.

[EAGLES3658]

3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Is that a great example? Jackson has regressed greatly this year now that the gimmicks have been taken away.

I'm not comparing the players? Just how they eased them onto the field.

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, EAGLES3658 said:

I'm not comparing the players? Just how they eased them onto the field.

Right, and I am saying that method has appeared to not work as good as people thought it did.

[EAGLES3658]

2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Right, and I am saying that method has appeared to not work as good as people thought it did.

I don't think the method is the reason for the outcome of the player. 

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, EAGLES3658 said:

I don't think the method is the reason for the outcome of the player. 

Coaching matters. Any coach that allows a running QB to rely on his legs is dooming his player to fail.

[EAGLES3658]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

Coaching matters. Any coach that allows a running QB to rely on his legs is dooming his player to fail.

The method is basically to get the QBs feet wet. One read and run? That is fine, at first. The important thing is just getting on the field and starting to learn to read NFL defenses and speed. As the player learns they start opening up the play book more. If the QB doesn't develop or regresses like Lamar then that is for another reason. Not because they kept it simple at first.