Eagles Weak 14: Just Make It Stop

[Matts4313]

3 minutes ago, EAGLES3658 said:

The method is basically to get the QBs feet wet. One read and run? That is fine, at first. The important thing is just getting on the field and starting to learn to read NFL defenses and speed. As the player learns they start opening up the play book more. If the QB doesn't develop or regresses like Lamar then that is for another reason. Not because they kept it simple at first. 

I get the logic. But I am telling you that every single running QB in the history of the NFL that has started that way has failed. Including the greatest athletic QB ever in Vick. It took him going to jail, coming back as a back under QB guru late in his career to finally become a QB.

That method sucks. Period. Because all you are doing is teaching your QB bad habits. 

But I hate your team, so go ahead and do it. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Matts4313

[nlesthought]

The only question I have is can Carson play DB? Geez injuries to 3/4 of the starting DBs

We're going to have to play a ball control 2.5 yds and a cloud a lucky dust. 

[Matts4313]

18 minutes ago, nlesthought said:

The only question I have is can Carson play DB? Geez injuries to 3/4 of the starting DBs

We're going to have to play a ball control 2.5 yds and a cloud a lucky dust. 

Is this a joke? He leads the league in INTs. Of course he can play DB.

[eagles18]

1 hour ago, EAGLES3658 said:

Isn't this exactly how the Ravens eased Lamar Jackson into the NFL? I think they didn't even let him throw as much as Hurts actually. 

Was it easing Lamar into the NFL or was it schemed because they understood Lamar's strengths and weaknesses i.e he can't read a defense and in my opinion he has been exposed this season... 

[oland11]

The most frustrating thing about this game is that Doug altered the offense to fit Jalen Hurts' skill set similar to Nick Foles. Yet he wouldn't alter it or run the ball for the life of him when Carson was starting. But the devil's advocate to this is how involved in Carson is creating the game plan. How much input does he have with the plays that are put into the GP week in and out.

[eagles18]

7 minutes ago, oland11 said:

The most frustrating thing about this game is that Doug altered the offense to fit Jalen Hurts' skill set similar to Nick Foles. Yet he wouldn't alter it or run the ball for the life of him when Carson was starting. But the devil's advocate to this is how involved in Carson is creating the game plan. How much input does he have with the plays that are put into the GP week in and out.

I don't think Carson has any input on game day other then having the right to check out of plays and letting coaches know what he is comfortable doing. I think it's crazy to blame the quarterback for play designs and play calls. While Carson was QB, the offense hardly ran the ball and there was virtually no short passes or screen plays to counter blitzing defenses taking advantage of a weak O line. Also, Doug kept him in the pocket too much and seemingly didn't involve many roll outs.  We all saw several key members of the team come out and defend Carson. This is on the coaching staff. 

[oland11]

5 minutes ago, eagles18 said:

I don't think Carson has any input on game day other then having the right to check out of plays and letting coaches know what he is comfortable doing. I think it's crazy to blame the quarterback for play designs and play calls. While Carson was QB, the offense hardly ran the ball and there was virtually no short passes or screen plays to counter blitzing defenses taking advantage of a weak O line. Also, Doug kept him in the pocket too much and seemingly didn't involve many roll outs.  We all saw several key members of the team come out and defend Carson. This is on the coaching staff. 

This is one of the things no one will be talking about this week because we are all blindly drinking the Hurts kool-aid. I really hope if Carson finds himself back behind center we continue to run the offense we ran last night. Enough of these 5 second drops waiting for his receivers to run a 20 yard post so we can launch the deep ball.

[Broadway Joe]

57 minutes ago, oland11 said:

This is one of the things no one will be talking about this week because we are all blindly drinking the Hurts kool-aid. I really hope if Carson finds himself back behind center we continue to run the offense we ran last night. Enough of these 5 second drops waiting for his receivers to run a 20 yard post so we can launch the deep ball.

Yesterday´s offense is not sustainable no matter who´s at QB. Hurts did nothing impressive with his arm, he had like two completions between the numbers. Any other year having Carson do that would be a waste of his abilities. What´s important is that we stop with the unimaginative all curl routes on 3rd down and of course giving Miles Sanders the ball 15+ times which has been a disservice all year. 

[EaglesPeteC]

 

[ninjapirate]

21 minutes ago, EaglesPeteC said:

 

Sounds like some cool things happened in the saints qb room.

[Nabbs4u]

Back Up Syndrome. Its what we do when inserted.

Coaches change

Players change

Everyone ups there game because they believe they have to.

[Matts4313]

31 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

Back Up Syndrome. Its what we do when inserted.

 

You watching the Browns game? Because your RB just threw Wentz under the bus...

[RandyMossIsBoss]

Lamar has not been "exposed"... he regressed from his MVP season that's for sure, but that happens to every non-elite QB. Ryan, Newton. Doesn't mean those guys weren't franchise QBs. Lamar is still just 23/24, in year 3, and went from having a dominant OL to a mediocre one. Look at his weapons, pretty mediocre too. They also clearly are trying to make the effort to transition him into more of a passer, and due to a combination of supporting cast and him just not being there yet as thrower, the offense stalls. It's hard to balance that with winning when you are a contender like the Ravens, as we saw tonight just letting the kid loose gives them the best chance to win (we on the other hand will not be contenders in 2021 so can take all the time we want with growing pains if Hurts is indeed the starter).

 

I have no problem with us bringing Hurts along the same way Lamar was, or the failed experiments before him. I don't even think RGIII, Kaep, Vick, etc., were screwed by the way they were developed. I just think none of them were that good... They simply couldn't survive once they milked the 1 read and run style for all it was worth and were forced to be pocket passers. You know what would kill Hurts' development? If we were asking a rookie QB, who made over 25% (!) of his throws outside of the pocket in college, to start throwing from the pocket behind an awful OL, with awful WRs. That's how you get a QB to start seeing ghosts, because he would take a beating and certainly lose confidence in his ability. I would think gradually keeping him in the pocket more and more, slowly sprinkling in some play where he needs to go through his progressions, would be the best way to go.

 

Don't get me wrong, what we saw yesterday is not sustainable and no long term solution, but it makes complete sense to me and IF Hurts really is our QBOTF (which I still sort of doubt, I think we're drafting a QB in 2022 or Wentz turns it around if a new regime comes in), I'd like to play him with training wheels for a few games and then next year really putting him to the test. If after a full offseason, with a hopefully better OL (Brooks and Lane back, Dillard can't hurt), and maybe some better weapons, he is not improving or showing ability to be a pocket passer then we can get concerned.

Edited December 15, 2020 by RandyMossIsBoss

[RandyMossIsBoss]

10 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

I get the logic. But I am telling you that every single running QB in the history of the NFL that has started that way has failed. Including the greatest athletic QB ever in Vick. It took him going to jail, coming back as a back under QB guru late in his career to finally become a QB.

That method sucks. Period. Because all you are doing is teaching your QB bad habits. 

But I hate your team, so go ahead and do it. 

I get your logic, but is there really an alternative here? Do you think Hurts could get anything done if we were telling him to stay in the pocket behind our OL and weapons? I guess he's mentally tough so you could say he'll only learn from the hardships, but I don't know, seems just as risky a proposition. 

 

and the jury is absolutely still out on Lamar and Kyler. We'll know in 2-3 years, when either they have defied every long held belief and are still running 10x a game and operating successful read heavy offenses, transitioned into good mobile QBs who run as last resort (Wilson), or are indeed exposed and no longer leading effective offenses. 

[Matts4313]

4 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

I get your logic, but is there really an alternative here? Do you think Hurts could get anything done if we were telling him to stay in the pocket behind our OL and weapons? I guess he's mentally tough so you could say he'll only learn from the hardships, but I don't know, seems just as risky a proposition. 

You can use his legs without making him a running QB. Mainly moving the pocket through rollouts. RPO but passing. teaching him proper scrambling on passes.

Also I am not saying no designed runs or him just qb keeping when he doesnt see anything. But limit it.

4 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

and the jury is absolutely still out on Lamar and Kyler. We'll know in 2-3 years, when either they have defied every long held belief and are still running 10x a game and operating successful read heavy offenses, transitioned into good mobile QBs who run as last resort (Wilson), or are indeed exposed and no longer leading effective offenses. 

They specifically limited Kylers designed runs to make him pass.